D&D 5E A Bard Tease

[variant]

From what I've seen of the alpha PHB (w/ all appropriate caveats about that), it looks like Bardic Inspiration is the mangled, bleeding wreckage of what's left after the collision of the playtest bard & a nerfbat-wielding Godzilla.

Grant one 'inspiration die' to a single ally w/ a bonus action, which they can use on a SINGLE attack, ability, or save roll. Do this <Cha mod> times before needing a LONG rest. :blink:

Be still my heart... oh wait, it's already broken in sympathy. /mourn bard

So what's wrong with it? We've known about this since one of the Q&A sessions with the development team. An external bonus to pretty much any roll is extremely powerful with the bounded accuracy. In fact, the biggest worry was that it was too powerful.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

So what's wrong with it? We've known about this since one of the Q&A sessions with the development team. An external bonus to pretty much any roll is extremely powerful.

CHA mod uses between long rests despite also going to single-target is what's wrong with it. That's likely 3-5/day, which given it's +1d6 (eventually rising to +1d12), isn't a huge amount (esp. compared to say, Bless - which can be cast basically every combat by mid-levels).

 

[variant]

CHA mod uses between long rests despite also going to single-target is what's wrong with it. That's likely 3-5/day, which given it's +1d6 (eventually rising to +1d12), isn't a huge amount (esp. compared to say, Bless - which can be cast basically every combat by mid-levels).

I don't see the problem.

Bless is casted on an action, requires concentration, is only d4 which doesn't go up. Plus it stacks with Bardic Inspiration.

Bardic Inspiration is casted on a bonus action, scales anywhere from d6 to d12 and can be used on any ability check, not just attacks and saving throws.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I don't see the problem.

Bless is casted on an action, requires concentration, is only d4 which doesn't go up. Plus it stacks with Bardic Inspiration.

Bardic Inspiration is casted on a bonus action, scales anywhere from d6 to d12 and can be used on any ability check, not just attacks and saving throws.

Wow, are you kidding? Bless affects EVERY SINGLE ATTACK AND SAVE for 3+ people as long as it is maintained (and it's not easy to break, esp. as if buffs the save!) and is a LEVEL 1 spell, so can be cast a LOT of times.

Vs.

3-5 times A DAY, affects a SINGLE PERSON on a SINGLE ROLL.

They do stack, but the latter is vastly weaker and more limited. BEFORE the nerf, the Bard ability was basically very similar to Bless (initially roughly equal, later superior).

 

[variant]

Wow, are you kidding? Bless affects EVERY SINGLE ATTACK AND SAVE for 3+ people as long as it is maintained (and it's not easy to break, esp. as if buffs the save!) and is a LEVEL 1 spell, so can be cast a LOT of times.

Vs.

3-5 times A DAY, affects a SINGLE PERSON on a SINGLE ROLL.

They do stack, but the latter is vastly weaker and more limited. BEFORE the nerf, the Bard ability was basically very similar to Bless (initially roughly equal, later superior).

Kidding about what? Bardic Inspiration is a much higher bonus, casted on a bonus action, and can be used on any ability check, not just attacks and saving throws.

 

[Snapdragyn]

Yeah, even just comparing it to 3.5 bard this is a huge nerf.

3.5: +1 to every attack roll made by every single party member in range, +1 to every weapon damage roll, & +1 to every save vs. fear or charm effects

vs.

5e: +d6 to one single roll of any type made by one single party member w/in 1 minute of being 'inspired'; max of <Cha mod> party members can be inspired & inspiration dice don't stack.

By 4th level, the 3.5 bard is doing their thing 4 times per day. The 5e bard has perhaps gained the ability to do his 5 times per long rest +1 regained from a short rest. In a 'standard' party of 4, that means the 3.5 bard is granting a bonus to every relevant roll of all 4 party members (self included) in probably every battle of the day; the 5e bard is granting a bonus on a single roll for every party member in 1 battle... and just 2 more in the next battle, provided they get a short rest between. After that, everyone's on their own.

Since inspiring requires a bonus action & not a reaction, you can't throw it someone's way when they have an 'oh grandma!' moment - you have to guess who's going to need it most beforehand, or grant it in combat when someone's getting into a rough spot where they might need it more.

I recognize that the +dice to damage was unbalanced (I think I mentioned doing 16d6 damage before I even hit anything once?), and party size scaling was a big factor there (more party members = more 'surrogate' damage). I saw the problem with Bardic Performance requiring concentration & a number of good bard spells doing the same. I can see that perhaps this was thought of as a remedy for those issues. What bothers me, however, is how very very limited it is in uses/day (well, what bothers me most).

I'll hope that they changed it to 'all uses replenish on a short rest'; it would still, IMO, be weaker than the 3.5 version (clearly better on the single roll where used, but only 1 roll vs. numerous), but I could live with it. Failing that, I'll advocate for this as a house rule in any 5e campaign I'm in which has a bard (regardless of who's playing it).

 

[variant]

Yeah, even just comparing it to 3.5 bard this is a huge nerf.

3.5: +1 to every attack roll made by every single party member in range, +1 to every weapon damage roll, & +1 to every save vs. fear or charm effects

vs.

5e: +d6 to one single roll of any type made by one single party member w/in 1 minute of being 'inspired'; max of <Cha mod> party members can be inspired & inspiration dice don't stack.

By 4th level, the 3.5 bard is doing their thing 4 times per day. The 5e bard has perhaps gained the ability to do his 5 times per long rest +1 regained from a short rest. In a 'standard' party of 4, that means the 3.5 bard is granting a bonus to every relevant roll of all 4 party members (self included) in probably every battle of the day; the 5e bard is granting a bonus on a single roll for every party member in 1 battle... and just 2 more in the next battle, provided they get a short rest between. After that, everyone's on their own.

Since inspiring requires a bonus action & not a reaction, you can't throw it someone's way when they have an 'oh grandma!' moment - you have to guess who's going to need it most beforehand, or grant it in combat when someone's getting into a rough spot where they might need it more.

I recognize that the +dice to damage was unbalanced (I think I mentioned doing 16d6 damage before I even hit anything once?), and party size scaling was a big factor there (more party members = more 'surrogate' damage). I saw the problem with Bardic Performance requiring concentration & a number of good bard spells doing the same. I can see that perhaps this was thought of as a remedy for those issues. What bothers me, however, is how very very limited it is in uses/day (well, what bothers me most).

I'll hope that they changed it to 'all uses replenish on a short rest'; it would still, IMO, be weaker than the 3.5 version (clearly better on the single roll where used, but only 1 roll vs. numerous), but I could live with it. Failing that, I'll advocate for this as a house rule in any 5e campaign I'm in which has a bard (regardless of who's playing it).

The bonus in 5e is far more beneficial than it was in 3e. When a player is running around with +35 or more to hit at level 20, that +4 morale bonus is insignificant.