D&D 5E A bit of a dilemma

[KahlessNestor]

I'm running a group of people (college students) new to RPGs through Hoard of the Dragon Queen. I have 5 players. 3 are consistent, 1 has been consistent, but missed a few, and one that is about 50/50:

Eldritch Knight 3 (sword and board, though this last time he went two-handed longsword)
Moon Druid 3 (tanky as hell, but really the only healer)
Wild Sorcerer 3
Barbarian (unchosen) 3 - fairly regular (though only L2 at the time of this account)
Ranger (dual-wield) 2 - halfway consistent

So in chapter 2 they explored the cultists' camp and ended up getting pounded into the dirt by the 4 dragonclaws guarding the prisoners. The wizard died (druid player's former character). I had some hot dice and a couple nice crits. Well, they escaped with the prisoners and leveled up and we moved on to chapter 3, which sent them back to the (now abandoned) camp. They murderhoboed the hunters, keeping one alive for questioning, and then the same with the two dragonclaws guarding the entrance to the cave.

And then they decided not to tackle the cave because it would be too tough! They thought they had all the information they were sent to find (maybe my fault?) and headed off to Elturel to report to Leosin that the cult took all the treasure "west".

So I was a bit stuck. That's a whole chapter they skipped, including the information they needed about where the cult was going. And, more worriedly, a lot of XP they would miss. So I had Ontarr Frume be a bit miffed at them for being such slackers, and Leosin being concerned. So I had them send the party back to the camp.

I guess rag on me for railroading them, or not respecting their "player agency" or whatever. But I really was at a loss how to continue. I suppose I could have deus ex machina had some courier arrive with the information from the cave (the caravan was heading north along the Coast Road). But how is that really much better? And that might just end up with a TPK later because of all the XP they would miss.

So they go back to the cave. I had four players this last session, but the EK had to leave an hour early. So we had just finished the fight with Frulam Mondath, who had escaped down the hidden hole into the shrine to hook up with Landrygosa Cyanwrath when he left, and the others decided to continue on. I didn't look at just how tough the fight would be until I was handing out XP at the end, and hooo boy! Cyanwrath is a CR 4, Mondath a 2, and two berserkers at CR 2!

Needless to say, it was nearly a TPK. The only thing that saved them was that I hadn't brushed up on the Wild Magic rules and just let the sorcerer roll on the table twice, when he wanted to. He got two unicorns.

So we ended the session there, the barbarian is leveling up to 3. Seems like that might be the toughest fight of the dungeon, but here is my dilemma:

The module says the three black dragon eggs will hatch "within a tenday". This is information the players would never really have; just the DM. It's six days to Elturel, and then six days back. So by the book, the eggs should be hatched. So should I be throwing three black dragon wyrmlings (CR 2) at my players in addition to the kobolds and guard drakes (and any wandering monsters) that are supposed to be in the dragon hatchery? Or should I just ignore it and run it as written?

 

[Lanliss]

I'm running a group of people (college students) new to RPGs through Hoard of the Dragon Queen. I have 5 players. 3 are consistent, 1 has been consistent, but missed a few, and one that is about 50/50:

Eldritch Knight 3 (sword and board, though this last time he went two-handed longsword)
Moon Druid 3 (tanky as hell, but really the only healer)
Wild Sorcerer 3
Barbarian (unchosen) 3 - fairly regular (though only L2 at the time of this account)
Ranger (dual-wield) 2 - halfway consistent

So in chapter 2 they explored the cultists' camp and ended up getting pounded into the dirt by the 4 dragonclaws guarding the prisoners. The wizard died (druid player's former character). I had some hot dice and a couple nice crits. Well, they escaped with the prisoners and leveled up and we moved on to chapter 3, which sent them back to the (now abandoned) camp. They murderhoboed the hunters, keeping one alive for questioning, and then the same with the two dragonclaws guarding the entrance to the cave.

And then they decided not to tackle the cave because it would be too tough! They thought they had all the information they were sent to find (maybe my fault?) and headed off to Elturel to report to Leosin that the cult took all the treasure "west".

So I was a bit stuck. That's a whole chapter they skipped, including the information they needed about where the cult was going. And, more worriedly, a lot of XP they would miss. So I had Ontarr Frume be a bit miffed at them for being such slackers, and Leosin being concerned. So I had them send the party back to the camp.

I guess rag on me for railroading them, or not respecting their "player agency" or whatever. But I really was at a loss how to continue. I suppose I could have deus ex machina had some courier arrive with the information from the cave (the caravan was heading north along the Coast Road). But how is that really much better? And that might just end up with a TPK later because of all the XP they would miss.

So they go back to the cave. I had four players this last session, but the EK had to leave an hour early. So we had just finished the fight with Frulam Mondath, who had escaped down the hidden hole into the shrine to hook up with Landrygosa Cyanwrath when he left, and the others decided to continue on. I didn't look at just how tough the fight would be until I was handing out XP at the end, and hooo boy! Cyanwrath is a CR 4, Mondath a 2, and two berserkers at CR 2!

Needless to say, it was nearly a TPK. The only thing that saved them was that I hadn't brushed up on the Wild Magic rules and just let the sorcerer roll on the table twice, when he wanted to. He got two unicorns.

So we ended the session there, the barbarian is leveling up to 3. Seems like that might be the toughest fight of the dungeon, but here is my dilemma:

The module says the three black dragon eggs will hatch "within a tenday". This is information the players would never really have; just the DM. It's six days to Elturel, and then six days back. So by the book, the eggs should be hatched. So should I be throwing three black dragon wyrmlings (CR 2) at my players in addition to the kobolds and guard drakes (and any wandering monsters) that are supposed to be in the dragon hatchery? Or should I just ignore it and run it as written?

Not familiar with D&D dragons in the egg state. Are they aware of the outside? If not, this could benefit the players greatly, assuming they can imprint with the dragons. If they are aware, I would have them wait to hatch, knowing they are in too dangerous a situation to be so vulnerable.

 

[Greenmtn]

Well that (Imprinting) could make things interesting for sure. Sounds like the PC's would pick a fight with them before that had a chance to happen though.

I say roll with it, take it easy on the wandering monsters and make sure that they hear the dragons before they see them so they know what they are getting themselves into and have a chance to work out a plan.

 

[jasper]

... I suppose I could have deus ex machina had some courier arrive with the information from the cave (the caravan was heading north along the Coast Road). But how is that really much better? And that might just end up with a TPK later because of all the XP they would miss.
.......
Ok, you are going have to adjust the encounters down. I would always assume the 50%er will not be there. This will mean more prep for you. If they skip chapters you will have throw in encounters to feed them xp.
Baby dragons. I would adjust it to 1 dragon baby but not skip it.
... and run it as written? .... It takes time and xp to know when to throw the module script out. But you if your gut is saying bad move DON't run as written.

 

[Rya.Reisender]

Two things (I haven't played the module so I'll have to go by your context):

1. Players find out the enemies head west, return to NPC and tell him. At that point I'd make the NPC say "Hmm west you say? That's pretty vague, I'm not sure we could find them like that, did you find any others clues?" and if the players deny that: "Maybe it's best if you return there and check for more clues". That's not railroading, just making NPCs think the thoughts the players neglected to think.
Players still CAN just head west. Anything the module marks on the map, can always be found just by searching around the area for a long time. I'd definitely allow that. I let me players point on a location of the map they'd search. They will run into battles. I'd even make them find clues occassionally. What clues? I usually let me players steer this. They might for example say "I wanna look for footprints" and then I'll tell them what footprints they find. Too far away or not on the enemy path? Footprints from animals found. On the path? Find footprints of the NPCs they seek.
This all works with just a little flexibility.

2. If the module lists time limits, I always read them as time limit counting from the time the adventurers enter the room the first time. So it's a tenday from the time they find the eggs, not from the time the chapter started. So they wouldn't be hatched if I DMed that.

 

[Jer]

The module says the three black dragon eggs will hatch "within a tenday". This is information the players would never really have; just the DM. It's six days to Elturel, and then six days back. So by the book, the eggs should be hatched. So should I be throwing three black dragon wyrmlings (CR 2) at my players in addition to the kobolds and guard drakes (and any wandering monsters) that are supposed to be in the dragon hatchery? Or should I just ignore it and run it as written?

Eh - I think you can go either way with it. IIRC the dragon hatchery part is rough for the traps but the battles with the kobolds themselves aren't that interesting, so adding a few wyrmlings to the mix might spice things up. Though if your players are low on resources then you might want to hold off - the wyrmlings will still only be a few days old after all, so having them sit it out in their nest isn't a terrible idea. And don't discount how much hassle the traps in those caves are - I remember my players getting seriously annoyed at the hit point attrition they were taking on traps in the kobold caves (though they were terrible at finding them, so perhaps it was just bad luck on their part).

I think it really depends on whether you feel constrained by the book or not. Personally a lot would depend to me on whether I wanted to make the players feel like their decision to not explore the cave in the first place was a bad one. If I did, then they could find these "recently hatched" eggs sitting there like a scene out of Alien and start worrying about what might be in the cave with them. But if not then I probably wouldn't worry about it. To be honest, from what I remember about the plot if the eggs have hatched then there's no reason for the cultists to still be there anyway - I think the reason they left the guards and Mondath and Cyanwrath behind was because the eggs were too sensitive and could become unviable if they were moved. Once they hatched, I would expect the cultists left in the caves to pack up and join their comrades. So just for plot logic you could decide that the eggs have to be just ready to hatch rather than already hatched. (Though that may be me justifying it after the fact - I don't remember if that was spelled out in the text or just something I assumed).

(Frankly leaving the cave alone if they think they know what the cult is up to is not a bad idea - the motivation for the PCs going into the cave is underdeveloped. I threw some extra enticements into the mix when I ran it because I thought there was little incentive for my group to actually explore the cave given what they had already learned. My group was equally likely to try to track the cultists who abandoned them camp as they were to try the cave, so I threw some extra incentive onto the cave and prepped some wilderness encounters just in case. Fortunately the barbarian was easily swayed by stories of horrible koboblds who had taken over the cave and driven out the bears who lived in it and she was eager to go smash some kobold skull. But the ranger was adamant that he could track the cultists if they wanted to follow them, so without that extra incentive I suspect I would have been running the wilderness encounters instead).

 

[KahlessNestor]

Thanks for the comments.

Yeah, I noticed after the fact that the reason for going back was a bit underdeveloped. This is my first time running a published adventure (besides Phandelver), so I have been reveling in what little prep I have to do outside of reading ahead and pulling monster tokens. Guess I haven't learned well how to improvise!

They haven't run into the traps yet, having gone right for the guard barraks. That should be fun.

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[Bradley Hindman]

If they skip chapters you will have throw in encounters to feed them xp.

When I ran this adventure for my group (5 players), I found that the XP rewards were generally insufficient to advance the level of the PCs at the rate the adventure assumes. In the early parts of the adventure this wasn't too much of an issue, but by the middle to end portions I had to start using the milestone award system. There were simply too few encounters within chapters.

 

[KahlessNestor]

When I ran this adventure for my group (5 players), I found that the XP rewards were generally insufficient to advance the level of the PCs at the rate the adventure assumes. In the early parts of the adventure this wasn't too much of an issue, but by the middle to end portions I had to start using the milestone award system. There were simply too few encounters within chapters.

I have considered doing that. Hasn't been an issue so far, but we'll see.

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[Barolo]

I believe adventure assumes the DM will also handle xp for several "accomplishments" if milestones are not used, even though it is not spelled out this way. It already gives plenty of examples of such, also pointing out how diplomacy or whatever other tactics should benefit the players as much as or even more than direct assault (just check the ropper...).

Anyhow, I found it funny you felt like your players needed to be headed back. Next time something similar happens, maybe you would consider just adding some interesting encounter on their way forward to possibly make up for the xp, or just award them for efficiency, instead of guiding them backwards. As pointed out already, leaving the cave as they found out the cult next steps could have been the intelligent idea.

As things are now, you can also simply assume the dragons have been moved away already. They were there only provisionally, waiting for hatching, so after that, there may have been no more purpose in leaving them there. The heroes could arrive at the hatchery just to see empty eggshells. You may even use them afterwards (like in the chapter "the cult strikes back" from RoT, or "on the road" in HotDQ).