A bit of confusion over Iaijutsu focus skill..

[Camarath]

This has nothing to do with making multiple IF focus attacks a round, where the rules side of it is a bit more murky, since the PHB isn't specific on how many free actions you can do a round and dropping an item is a free action. So when the letter of the rules is unclear i go with the spirit of the rules.

I was just curious to see if it was the drawing or the dropping of multiple weapons that you objected to. I do not believe the rules are unclear in this case but if you think drawing and dropping multiple weapons is ludicrous by all means disallow it in your game but it appears valid to me under the rules.

 

[Camarath]

Since the rules don't address this particular point, there is nothing to contradict your view. Nor support it.

Much in the exact wording of the skill can be made of 'immediately'. Does that mean the first attack, or the whole round? As I said, I don't think the letter of the rules definitively support any side.

If you require an additional non-free action to use Iaijutsu focus how does an Iaijutsu duel work since as a surprise round one can only take one standard action and free actions during it?

 

[Black Omega]

I was just curious to see if it was the drawing or the dropping of multiple weapons that you objected to. I do not believe the rules are unclear in this case but if you think drawing and dropping multiple weapons is ludicrous by all means disallow it in your game but it appears valid to me under the rules.

The rules don't specifically prohibite it. The rules do say it's up to the GM how many free actions can be done per round. So a GM could prohibit this tactic without using house rules, either.

In a game that allowed this, I could easily have a 10th level rogue doing +9d6 on average with every melee sneak attack. Ouch.

 

[silentspace]

I've always wondered about this. Surely someone must have clarified this somewhere?

Iaijutsu doesn't seem to work with Whirlwind attack (inference from the FAQ) but Ki Whirlwind with IF is allowed according to the FAQ.

This sure makes it seem like you can get multiple attacks in...

Someone brought up samurai movies... There are many examples in movies (and in martial arts practice) where multiple strikes are made after an iaido draw. Really great iaido masters can draw, make multiple strikes, and sheathe their weapon in a single fluid motion.

...none of which is really relevant here, since the issue is game balance.

 

[Black Omega]

If you require an additional non-free action to use Iaijutsu focus how does an Iaijutsu duel work since as a surprise round one can only take one standard action and free actions during it?

OA page 81-82.

Phase one: Stance (skill check to determine the others skill)
Phase Two: Focus (skill check to determine who goes first)
Phase Three: Both strike, the order determined by Phase Two. Notice, they are very specific it's at this point the surprise action applies. "The first round of the strike phase is essentially a surprise action."

So I just go by the rules in the book for Iaijutsu duels.

 

[silentspace]

In a game that allowed this, I could easily have a 10th level rogue doing +9d6 on average with every melee sneak attack. Ouch.

Iaijutsu rogue? Ouch.

IMO, if you compare it to Sneak Attack, IF is not overpowered even if you allow multiple attacks immediately after drawing a single weapon! Sure, it hits hard, but only against flat-footed foes. The rogue can sneak attack under a lot more circumstances.

The thing that makes it really over the top is Strike from the Void, the Iaijutsu Master ability.

 

[Black Omega]

I've always wondered about this. Surely someone must have clarified this somewhere?

This sure makes it seem like you can get multiple attacks in...

Ki Whirlwind is a standard action, and they felt the need to say specificly "But it does work with this." Sadly, they didn't say if it works with a normal Whirlwind attack, that would have been far more revealing.

Someone brought up samurai movies...

That would be me.

There are many examples in movies (and in martial arts practice) where multiple strikes are made after an iaido draw. Really great iaido masters can draw, make multiple strikes, and sheathe their weapon in a single fluid motion.

Yep, all of which can happen under both our interpretations of the rules. Our point of contention is if all attacks get the damage or not. I completely agree you can do a single IF strike, then do other attacks before sheathing your weapon.

 

[Black Omega]

Iaijutsu rogue? Ouch.

IMO, if you compare it to Sneak Attack, IF is not overpowered even if you allow multiple attacks immediately after drawing a single weapon! Sure, it hits hard, but only against flat-footed foes. The rogue can sneak attack under a lot more circumstances.

Since IF specifically stacks with SA, it can get pretty nasty pretty fast. A 10th level rogue can do the SA damage of a 20th level rogue, or nearly so, without really minimaxing.

 

[Camarath]

OA page 81-82.

Because those rules state that the Iaijutsu duel is essentially a surprise round that means that only non-free action one preforms during the Iaijutsu duel is the attack which means that using the skill can not take a standard, move-equivalent, or full-round action. Also since no mention is made of an additional action being required to use the skill other than making an attack against a flat-footed opponent I think Iaijutsu focus clearly falls under the "Some skill checks are instant and represent reactions to an event, or are included as part of an action. These skill checks are not actions." type of skills.

 

[Black Omega]

Because those rules state that the Iaijutsu duel is essentially a surprise round that means that only non-free action one preforms during the Iaijutsu duel is the attack which means that using the skill can not take a standard, move-equivalent, or full-round action.

The only place the rules say anything about a surprise round with regard to the Iaijutsu duel is in the quote given above by me.

Also since no mention is made of an additional action being required to use the skill other than making an attack against a flat-footed opponent I think Iaijutsu focus clearly falls under the "Some skill checks are instant and represent reactions to an event, or are included as part of an action. These skill checks are not actions." type of skills.

This is quite possible. There's no information to contradict it or support it, so it's pretty much up to the GM. It's not like the rules police are coming to either of our houses to repossess our books.