A bit toooo useful

[S'mon]

Should paladin's be able to cast a spell to make a class benift (the mount) not have any of the associated pentalites (you have a bit animal which can't go everywhere).

Comments?

I think the solution to this is for Divine spellcasters who want non-PHB spells to get their own, limited spell list of spells they can receive each day; of approximately the same length as the PHB list or slightly shorter, since it will be made up of 'preferred' spells. Eg: for each Dragon or other non-PHB spell they get on their list, with DM approval, they give up 2 spells from the PHB list. That avoids the big 'something for nothing' problem of divine casters with their ever-expanding spell lists, all available every day at prayer time.

 

[Dark Eternal]

Of course, there is another solution to the 'ever expanding divine spell list' problem, and its the one I favor.

I've always felt that divine spellcasters have it both better and worse than arcane spellcasters. They get to choose their spells each day from the entire list of spells that their deity is willing to grant them, but the way they use those spells has to meet their deity's approval.

I think that's a very important factor, and if the DM is willing to use it to enforce balance, then it pretty much addresses the divine spell list problem, as well.

If a cleric isn't very, very faithful in making sure he only uses the spells granted him by his deity in a fashion that promotes the causes of his god, then that god shouldn't grant him whatever spell he may have 'abused' for a while.

And deities have every right to be extraordinarily picky about how their followers use the powers they are granted - after all, every single thing that the divine spellcaster does reflects on his deity in the eyes of those who watch it happen.

Anyways, the watchfulness of the gods - as opposed to divine inattention - does a lot to make divine spellcasters both more interesting to play and less likely to be abused in my campaigns.

And that's my ha'penny's worth.

 

[S'mon]

Of course, there is another solution to the 'ever expanding divine spell list' problem, and its the one I favor.

I've always felt that divine spellcasters have it both better and worse than arcane spellcasters. They get to choose their spells each day from the entire list of spells that their deity is willing to grant them, but the way they use those spells has to meet their deity's approval.

I think that's a very important factor, and if the DM is willing to use it to enforce balance, then it pretty much addresses the divine spell list problem, as well.

If a cleric isn't very, very faithful in making sure he only uses the spells granted him by his deity in a fashion that promotes the causes of his god, then that god shouldn't grant him whatever spell he may have 'abused' for a while.

And deities have every right to be extraordinarily picky about how their followers use the powers they are granted - after all, every single thing that the divine spellcaster does reflects on his deity in the eyes of those who watch it happen.

Anyways, the watchfulness of the gods - as opposed to divine inattention - does a lot to make divine spellcasters both more interesting to play and less likely to be abused in my campaigns.

And that's my ha'penny's worth.

Unfortunately my campaign is predicated on deities having limited power - they CAN'T grant any spell, even if they wanted to. My campaign allows for divine ascension and PC deities, so deities have to be limited to be playable. Eg Thrin (Upper_Krust) the knight's god would love to give his paladins an unlimited spell selection to crush his enemies with, I have to GM the gods as well as the mortals!

 

[Graf]

Yep, two. One follows Corean, and one Madriel.

Duncan

I'm getting Deja vue. Your game isn't the one with the tricked out Slitherin in Darakeene is it?

 

[Darkness]

As far as I know divine casters are the only casters whose spell repetoire spontaneously expands with each rules supplement.

That's one way to handle it. (And if it's the way you prefer, more power to you. )

Personally, I only allow them automatic access to the spells in the PHB, while all other spells have to be learned in-game.

BTW, Dragon #299 has (in the very article that got this thread started, even) a nice list of different ways for handling this issue.
It's in the side bar on page 76.

 

[Cougar]

Doesn't 'de nada' translate literally into 'it's nothing'?

 

[Nightfall]

I'm getting Deja vue. Your game isn't the one with the tricked out Slitherin in Darakeene is it?

It's all about the Slitheren baby! *is kidding*

 

[Piratecat]

"De nada" translates literally to "of nothing," but it means "you're welcome."

I think most groups should let divine spellcasters trade out existing spells on their spell list for new spells, on a 1 for 1 basis. Here's why.

Let's assume that the PHB spells are balanced, and the number of divine spells per level available in the PHB is the preferred amount. Let's also assume that any new spell you're going to let into your game is balanced, or you just won't allow it in your game.

If this is the case, most divine casters aren't choosing from their whole spell list. Lots of spells are obscure, not usually helpful, or suited for PCs of differing alignments.

I think it makes sense to let PCs replace these less useful spells with balanced spells from new supplements, ones that they may find more appropriate to their characters. Total power is kept under control, as players have to make some hard decisions on what to cut after the first few spells... and yet the PC has more flexibility, the DM gets to use new supplements, and the game tends to become more fun.

The paladin "improve your mount" spells are a good example of this. They let the paladin turn a negative (a mount they can't use) into a fun positive, at the expense of some spell slots. I'd say that's reasonable in most campaigns.

Anyways, I've been doing this in my game, and it seems to work really well.

 

[Darkness]

Good thinking, Piratecat; I'd allow it.

 

[Duncan Haldane]

I'm getting Deja vue. Your game isn't the one with the tricked out Slitherin in Darakeene is it?

It sure is

I post on the scarred lands group using my real name - my name here is an alias

"Duncan"