D&D 5E A brief rant about Rime of the Frost Maiden, farming, logistics, and ecology

[Guest User]

That's what I would expect from WOTC, but sadly, they fall far short

What modules meet your expectations then?
Back In the 1980s a module sold for around $8-$15 US dollars.
The Queen of Spiders omnibus was $15...Fifteen 1980s dollars which is $45 dollars in terms of 2020 dollars.

The price has stayed relatively constant, once you adjust for inflation.

I would argue the same is roughly true for plot holes from 1980 to Now.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Why would you presume "bad faith"?

There is literally a tower buried upside down in ice in Rime, so the ceiling is the floor.
From my perspective, refusing to try a product with simple, but evocative features like this because of quibbles like "The cold rules in the DMG don't fit my taste" or "Two years without sun is too much"...is the silly argument.

These are trifles.

Trifles?

'Hey, as anyone with a high school education would know, the circumstances as described will have killed or driven everyone off. But people are still alive. Don't think about that, don't ask any questions, just follow these railroad tracks to Encounter Area 1.'

Talk about setting the bar low.

 

[Oofta]

WOTC is the low-end fast food of RPGs. Quick simple slop served to people who demand nothing more.

It used to be cheap, but that ship sailed.

The thing is, they could be great, but they choose not to bother.

I don't really care about this argument, but just because you disagree with a tiny bit of fluff what they produce is "slop"? So anyone who actually uses their products are what ... stupid? Ignorant?

You're insulting developers that have produced the single best selling RPG in history and by association insulting everyone who buys and enjoys their "slop". Don't like the product, don't buy it. No need to be so condescending and insulting.

Seriously, in the realm of "how the **** does that make sense" in entertainment product you set a freakin' low bar. Want to talk about stories that inanely stupid? I remember a TV show the unsurprisingly only aired a few episodes where the concept was that one side of the world was always in daytime and the other was always dark. Yet the "dark siders" had dead trees everywhere and torches. Insult whoever green-lit that project and I wouldn't blink an eye.

But this? Tweak the fluff just a tiny bit "Last year it never got very warm. Most of our crops failed and the mountains for the pass never was safe for travel and this year it's getting even worse". Maybe change eternal night to gloom that continues to get worse to the point where recently it's now always night.

Like others I haven't purchased this myself yet. I just get tired of people insulting the writers and by correlation the people who enjoy the mod over something this silly.

 

[Wasteland Knight]

What modules meet your expectations then?
Back In the 1980s a module sold for around $8-$15 US dollars.
The Queen of Spiders omnibus was $15...Fifteen 1980s dollars which is $45 dollars in terms of 2020 dollars.

The price has stayed relatively constant, once you adjust for inflation.

I would argue the same is roughly true for plot holes from 1980 to Now.

Lots of things published over the years, particularly in Dungeon magazine or by Paizo. I'm currently running Shackled City AP. I paid $60 for this weighty tome, and it's worth every penny. Vastly superior to what's being pumped out by WOTC these days. Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed and Ptolus also come immediately to mind as gaming material I felt was worth more than what I paid.

 

[TheSword]

Trifles?

'Hey, as anyone with a high school education would know, the circumstances as described will have killed or driven everyone off. But people are still alive. Don't think about that, don't ask any questions, just follow these railroad tracks to Encounter Area 1.'

Talk about setting the bar low.

For me, I don't want the ecology to match the real world. But, if I'm expected to care enough to engage a plot that involves saving the 10 towns from a magical winter, and I ask how their doing, and it's "things are starting to get bad, after 2 years of winter," that's a bit hard to swallow as a motivation. I mean, it's been over a year of winter all the time and you've survived, so how it that? What's needed? How do you reinforce that? These are the things that hook me as a player -- being tied into the world in a way that makes me care. The level of "yeah, whatever, it's been winter for 2 years, no sunlight, things are getting a bit rough now, but not terribly so" doesn't engage my care filters.

I don't really care if the scenario matches up to real world, the premise is fine, but there needs to be at least a little bit of work to explain how it's been okay until now, but it's suddenly bad enough that heroes are needed. THAT's the work I expect -- a hook that's deep enough to matter.

Maybe it’s cool to trash WOC, everyone likes an underdog. I just question when people are inaccurate in order to make their point cool.

The circumstances the Ten Towns are experiencing are not ‘a bit rough, but not terribly so’.

If people want to criticize a product for being accurate it helps if they too are accurate.

 

[Guest User]

Trifles?

Yes, trifles. If you think -49 degrees is too cold, change the thermostat.

If a DC 12 ability check is too low for your over leveled, high Ability score stat'd party, change the DC.

Do all the customization, that DMs do, for themselves.

If you are like my friend, that will never DM anything they have not written themself...that is cool.

The people bashing the product, seem to be heavily represented in the section of the Venn Diagram labeled as: Those that, (a priori),think WotC sucks and is too Expensive.

 

[Guest User]

Lots of things published over the years, particularly in Dungeon magazine or by Paizo. I'm currently running Shackled City AP.

Paizo Dungeon is the High Mark of D&D adventure design.
Paizo Dungeon was so good, it splintered the Republic, and lead to a separatist movement.

I own Ptolus signed copy #24. Ptolus is so good, Monte Cook just raised millions of dollars by selling it again.

So you don't just expect "good", you expect the Best. If it ain't Shakespeare it is .

Out of curiosity, are you converting the Shackled City AP to 5e? That requires effort, is that a demerit?

To me Shackled City was just OK, great for parts....but it did not engage me like Age of Worms did, or Castle Maure.

 

[Zaukrie]

Remember when this was about the content, and how some people want to amend it, and not some kind of personal thing? sigh.

 

[Shardstone]

Why would you presume "bad faith"?

There is literally a tower buried upside down in ice in Rime, so the ceiling is the floor.
From my perspective, refusing to try a product with simple, but evocative features like this because of quibbles like "The cold rules in the DMG don't fit my taste" or "Two years without sun is too much"...is the silly argument.

These are trifles. Want more deadly Blizzards...go to Dairy Queen.....or layer on a Cone of Cold effect. The module, as always, is the starting spot.

Not every product will speak to everyone, that is a given.

I just think it is unreasonable for middle age gamers with decades of game play under, (or over ), their belt to expect that a module must match perfectly, their ideal product dream.

Any module by Ed Greenwood always has at least one Encounter that is way too deadly, with a magic item that is way over the top. That is before we get into the naming conventions.

The same is roughly true for Gygax.
I know a person that has never liked any module for D&D, ever, except the old UK -made Solo play module. Their opinion matters, but even they would concede that their viewpoint is a bit of a singleton perspective.

I will also point out, as a player that person will play anything. They are just a picky DM.

Luckily I'm only 27, so I don't think that middle age gamers comment was at me, eh?

Anyway, the reason you think our argument is silly is because you really just don't respect the things that we are saying. You don't respect our arguments. You don't respect our ideas on what makes a quality story. For you, you want to just have a good, fun time, and you have your own image of what that is. That's great! But when people are saying that it isn't as fun for them, and then give structured arguments on it, and you respond that we just want Firewood Gathering rules, that's bad faith. You haven't responded to us. You haven't discussed our points. All you've done is reduce us to a strawman that has nothing to do what we're talking about, and you've used that to dismiss our arguments. I see this kind of thing go on in every thread on Enworld, and it always grinds my gears, because some of you people really just refuse to treat anyone else's ideas with any kind of respect.

Most of your post btw doesn't touch on any argument anyone has made. Guess you'd rather debate with imaginary middle aged gamers than the real people in this thread.

 

[Eltab]

If you roll a blizzard after the dragon attack, be sure that the refugees' path has scattered frozen bodies when the PCs later pass that way.

Maybe the PCs could hire a new group of NPC heroes-in-the-making to deal with the bodies? If nobody does anything, predators will eventually notice ...