D&D 5E A brief rant about Rime of the Frost Maiden, farming, logistics, and ecology

[Coroc]

Or you playing a game of dominos with the locals and your turn to buy a round. And you know somehow the locals were cheating on you. GP has always equal $$.

nah it is just that a little tip for some rumor shared (as well as a round of booze) should be some copper or a silver most. You spend gold on something like a house or a well fitted plate armor or such, not for some gossip.

 

[Oofta]

So you a bunch of you would be cool if the adventure cut three or four encounters and filled those pages with situation exposition and world logistics instead?

We've had over 300 posts arguing about less than .01% of the mod. Because WOTC didn't explicitly detail out something that most groups are going to not notice, ignore or the DM is going to have to spend 5 minutes adjusting to suit their idea of realistic. The posters complaining base their judgement on modern standards without accepting that some regions have had nearly total crop failures in the past yet people survived.

I don't expect reality simulation from anything D&D, I don't see why anyone would expect it now. What were they supposed to do? Hire a group of climatologists, historians, experts in sub arctic flora and fauna to write a scientifically accurate paper? Because honestly I have no clue what changes to the climate would have to be made to get the level of desperation implied by the mod. While I haven't read the mod my take is that if things don't change, the north is looking at a near extinction level event for surface dwellers. It has to be bad. How bad? Heck if I know.

If you think the description is too harsh (or not harsh enough) change the 3 sentences involved. For example it's spring of the 2nd year and it's getting worse, not better. They're starting to get desperate. While they had barely enough resources to make it through the past year they won't survive another. Tweak the temperatures so the lowest values only happen now and then, adjust the con DC to whatever value makes sense. Done.

If there are major problems with the structure of the rest of the mod, fine. I haven't read the mod I have no clue. But this? Meh.

 

[robus]

If there are major problems with the structure of the rest of the mod, fine.

I think that can be assumed, so this is more the tip of the iceberg so to speak.

 

[Oofta]

I think that can be assumed, so this is more the tip of the iceberg so to speak.

So you're basing your opinion on hearsay and speculation? Based on 2-3 sentences in the entire mod? Okay then.

I don't purchase mods often myself, but in the scheme of "this doesn't make sense" what has been reported is incredibly minimal in light of fantasy in general.

 

[robus]

So you're basing your opinion on hearsay and speculation? Based on 2-3 sentences in the entire mod? Okay then.

More fool me once (or 5+ times) .... won't get fooled again. But as I think you've admitted you don't run these modules so it's no big deal to you. On the other hand I have (or at least tried to), and I'm tired of the messes I've had to clean up all because WotC tried to be cute with plot twists, adventure design etc, and I've seen no sign that WotC is addressing these problems (which is fine, it's not a priority for them - but it doesn't mean I have to like it).

But let's agree to disagree. I care a lot about the internal consistency of the world/adventure and it seems you don't (forgive me if I misunderstand your position) and that's fine.

 

[TwoSix]

So you a bunch of you would be cool if the adventure cut three or four encounters and filled those pages with situation exposition and world logistics instead?

Absolutely. As I said above: Encounters are easy, logistics is hard.

 

[uzirath]

So you a bunch of you would be cool if the adventure cut three or four encounters and filled those pages with situation exposition and world logistics instead?

It could be handled easily in a sidebar. They could just provide some bullet points for ways to rationalize things depending on your groups' tolerances. Alternate flora (or magic flora), casters desperately keeping people alive, adjust the timeline from 2 years to 1 year, special UV from the aurora. Lots of the sorts of ideas that have been shared in this thread. I know that this depends on the table and I have no problem doing it myself, but it did leap out at me as a giant question mark that should have been addressed, at least in passing.

As a GM designing a scenario like this, I would try to weave some of these "background" questions into the core of the adventure path itself. For example, what if the dwarves have access to "solar crystals" that grow in the underworld and are tuned shine with the light of the sun on a typical 24-hour cycle? (These would explain a lot of things... why don't we have these already?) This would provide a more explicit connection between the dwarves and the humans, resolving another question in the adventure. The crystals might only last for a certain amount of time when they are removed from their caves, so there would be a desperate need for trade between the humans and the dwarves. Maybe Aurilian cultists would be trying to extinguish the crystals. Maybe they put pressure on the dwarves to cut off trade. (Or cut a deal with the Duergar to interfere with the crystals via some chardalyn powered engine.) Lots of adventure possibilities here for first-tier PCs as they grow toward the bigger challenges.

 

[Laurefindel]

Probably you and I (and the designers it seems) disagree on what constitutes a modicum of common sense.

Not that common sense exists at all, of

We've had over 300 posts arguing about less than .01% of the mod. Because WOTC didn't explicitly detail out something that most groups are going to not notice, ignore or the DM is going to have to spend 5 minutes adjusting to suit their idea of realistic. The posters complaining base their judgement on modern standards without accepting that some regions have had nearly total crop failures in the past yet people survived.

I don't expect reality simulation from anything D&D, I don't see why anyone would expect it now. What were they supposed to do? Hire a group of climatologists, historians, experts in sub arctic flora and fauna to write a scientifically accurate paper? Because honestly I have no clue what changes to the climate would have to be made to get the level of desperation implied by the mod. While I haven't read the mod my take is that if things don't change, the north is looking at a near extinction level event for surface dwellers. It has to be bad. How bad? Heck if I know.

If you think the description is too harsh (or not harsh enough) change the 3 sentences involved. For example it's spring of the 2nd year and it's getting worse, not better. They're starting to get desperate. While they had barely enough resources to make it through the past year they won't survive another. Tweak the temperatures so the lowest values only happen now and then, adjust the con DC to whatever value makes sense. Done.

If there are major problems with the structure of the rest of the mod, fine. I haven't read the mod I have no clue. But this? Meh.

If that 0.1% is in the premise for the mod in question, it is bound to feed a 300+ posts because that is literally the first things we learn about in the adventure. Regardless whether I find this premise realistic or not, or whether I care about realism or not, I'm not surprised that it creates a hearty discussion.

The premise of an adventure is always a bit tricky; stakes must be high enough to raise interests but if you go too far, people might not read past the back cover text...

Suspension of disbelief in fantasy/sci-fi is weird sometimes. People have no issue with flying, fire-breathing dragons because that's what we've been told that dragons do; they fly and they breath fire. Wizards cast fireball. Frost giants ignore the coldest temperatures, etc. But when a game/story focuses on something with which we have experience as humans, we tend to have less tolerance for the "unrealistic". See falling from 1000 feet and wading through lava. Prolonged exposition to extreme temperatures for two consecutive years (without further explanation of how this is survivable) leans on the "this isn't compatible with my perception and experience of cold/starvation" side of things.

 

[Oofta]

If that 0.1% is in the premise for the mod in question, it is bound to feed a 300+ posts because that is literally the first things we learn about in the adventure. Regardless whether I find this premise realistic or not, or whether I care about realism or not, I'm not surprised that it creates a hearty discussion.

The premise of an adventure is always a bit tricky; stakes must be high enough to raise interests but if you go too far, people might not read past the back cover text...

Suspension of disbelief in fantasy/sci-fi is weird sometimes. People have no issue with flying, fire-breathing dragons because that's what we've been told that dragons do; they fly and they breath fire. Wizards cast fireball. Frost giants ignore the coldest temperatures, etc. But when a game/story focuses on something with which we have experience as humans, we tend to have less tolerance for the "unrealistic". See falling from 1000 feet and wading through lava. Prolonged exposition to extreme temperatures for two consecutive years (without further explanation of how this is survivable) leans on the "this isn't compatible with my perception and experience of cold/starvation" side of things.

My point is simple. There's a lot of bluster and accusations of he mod being worthless by people who have not even read nor played it.
It's 2-4 sentences. If it bothers you, change it. Done. It's a molehill, not a mountain.

 

[Laurefindel]

My point is simple. There's a lot of bluster and accusations of he mod being worthless by people who have not even read nor played it.
It's 2-4 sentences. If it bothers you, change it. Done. It's a molehill, not a mountain.

Agreed!

But beyond the discussion of the realism/verisimilitude (or lack thereof) of the intro, I don't think most people were here to prove the whole adventure "worthless" [edit: before segue on other unrelated tangents that is]. The OP actually proposed sensible solutions, and then moved on. Then there was much bickering about whether or not it was important to address the premise. But people do get aggressively opinionated on the internets, so you might be right...