D&D 5E A brief rant about Rime of the Frost Maiden, farming, logistics, and ecology

Oofta

Legend
No, it's not this either/or. It's not expecting everything is perfect. It's looking at the part of the selling point premise -- the first thing you get about the situation and why it needs heroes -- and saying that it doesn't pass the smell test. Now, after that, it's entirely true that there's a number of people that aren't bothered by the smell, and some that are, but this isn't about adventure perfection, it's about asking why one of the core premises for the adventure is presented without any facilitation for suspension of disbelief when, as shown by this thread, it would have been simple to do.

As I've said a number of times, I see how these things happen because I've done these things. Luckily, most of mine got caught in review, but my program had to learn how to look for these things -- they don't just stop happening because we regret them. So, I get how it happens, and I don't expect perfection, and, for goodness sakes, the sales figures for WotC aren't really motivation to undertake a review of their review process, but that doesn't reduce or remove the validity of this criticism. The two year long deep winter is a poorly presented and unexplained premise that has caused some to have trouble with their enjoyment and suspension of disbelief. How many? Don't know, ENW is hardly representative of the wider hobby. I have to think that anyone that lives in the North of the globe (and a few places in the South) would at least scratch their heads before doing their own work to justify it, but that need to justify or explain away how one of the core premises of the adventure just to align with experience is a problem -- this is precisely the work the writers are supposed to be doing!

I don't need perfection, far from it. I would like the writers to do the basic job of presenting a core premise that hangs together rather than immediately make me question it because it violates my experience and knowledge and doesn't even try to justify that. This is the main job of a fantasy writer -- to violate your experience and then give you a reason to suspend disbelief. We have the violation, where's the reason? It's been advanced that it's to play an adventure, and that's laudable, but I can play lots of adventures -- why is this one special or different enough that I should do extra work to suspend the disbelief? This is where just a little bit of extra work on the premise could go a long way. That's not perfection, though.

So you want a mod customized to your personal tastes, preferences and theories of realism. You want them to never make different assumptions and judgement calls than you would ... except you don't ... but you do.

Anyway, this is going nowhere. Have a good one.
 

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Wasteland Knight

Adventurer
I was aiming for something that is "easy to fix myself" angle vs subjective/objective (a roomy interior is not a quick stop to the part shop). Perhaps if I had said the lights were too dim for my liking?
Your analogy was good. But ultimately it will be futile.

The detractors of RofFM are basing their negative reaction on objective points. There is certainly a subjective component to how much something concerns anybobevperdonnover another, but I have snd gave seen many objective shortcomings in this WOTC product.

The advocates however seem to be operating from a position of pure subjrctive emotion. They like WOTC, ergo they like RotFM snd you should top it you’re wrong.
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
So you want a mod customized to your personal tastes, preferences and theories of realism. You want them to never make different assumptions and judgement calls than you would ... except you don't ... but you do.

Anyway, this is going nowhere. Have a good one.
YES! Exactly! I want a mod so customized to my personal tastes that one of the core premises gets a bit more explanation! I'm 100% excited and glad that we've made this connection and are on the same page! WotC must please me by adding a few sentences to the core premise!
 

jasper

Rotten DM
My point is simple. There's a lot of bluster and accusations of he mod being worthless by people who have not even read nor played it.
It's 2-4 sentences. If it bothers you, change it. Done. It's a molehill, not a mountain.
One sentence.
Adventure League Dm.
Can't change it.
Rats that was 3 sentences. I can't count.
 

Oofta

Legend
One sentence.
Adventure League Dm.
Can't change it.
Rats that was 3 sentences. I can't count.

It's two sentences that go into no real detail that you are not expected to read verbatim. Besides, I've had plenty of public play DM's make minor tweaks to fluff, I've done it myself. Haven't been arrested by the AL police yet.
 

Laurefindel

Legend
Your analogy was good. But ultimately it will be futile.

The detractors of RofFM are basing their negative reaction on objective points. There is certainly a subjective component to how much something concerns anybobevperdonnover another, but I have snd gave seen many objective shortcomings in this WOTC product.

The advocates however seem to be operating from a position of pure subjrctive emotion. They like WOTC, ergo they like RotFM snd you should top it you’re wrong.
Quite a few things have been blown out of proportions in this thread, including the perception that “negative reaction to the premise = adventure is bad and worthless“. Or “I like WOTC therefore RotFM cannot be flawed.“

it isn’t even the whole premise that is called to be flawed; as Oofta said, turn the “apocalyptic winter dial” down a few notches and you’re there. The idea is things are going south (err, north?) in Icewind Dale and heroes are needed.

But people pointing out that the state of things described in the intro doesn’t match our experience (or perception of experience) of a full-on two-year deep winter do have a point IMO, and the perceived incoherence is off-putting.
 

jasper

Rotten DM
Ok people lets take @Oofta at his word. 2 -4 sentences to FIX the adventure.
Page 22. Cold Open paragraphs. Add at end.
"It been 2 years without sun. After the first month of adventuring by the party, roll a d10 and reduce the population of each town by that. This due to people leaving, or dying of starvation."
Page 11 In Blizzards paragraphs. Add
"Blizzards cause very extreme cold effects. Even cold weather gear does not help. The party will need a tent to survive. See Extreme Cold."
 

jasper

Rotten DM
It's two sentences that go into no real detail that you are not expected to read verbatim. Besides, I've had plenty of public play DM's make minor tweaks to fluff, I've done it myself. Haven't been arrested by the AL police yet.
I would phone the Adventure League police and narc on you but. I would have to narc on myself. As to tweaks read my write ups of Season 10.
 


MGibster

Legend
i am so glad i always alter the coinage system in official settings ( would be silver for FR)

The "paid 5g for rumors" made me cringe.
Translated to modern RL this would be like: "You give the drunkard that tells you that there might be a crocodile in the sewer 1000$ for sharing his insights ."

With the way PCs accumulate coins and gems with such frequency, I tend to view adventurers as ballers who roll into town with money to burn making it rain wherever they roam. But this is just my response to the ridiculously way gold is undervalued in the game. In my first 5E campaign I flat out told the PCs there were two economies: regular and adventurer. A regular person doesn't pay 50 gold for a draft horse but the PCs do because they're adventurers. Of course, the fact that adventurers spend so freely makes them very popular wherever they go.
 

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