A D&D 3.5 MMORPG

[Li Shenron]

Setting is absolutely irrelevant to this.

World of Warcraft is not successful because it's set in the Warcraft universe: it's successful because it is a really good game.

On an individual scale, setting is not irrelevant. How good the game is may be more important, but to say that the setting is irrelevant is a mistake: if there's a game set in a world that I'm familiar with, there are more chances that I go and check out that game or get some info about it.

It's not that an unknown setting prevents me from playing a game. For ex. when I first heard about Baldur's Gate, I've heard it was a great CRPG and wanted to try because I've tried a PnP RPG before and liked it, but I knew nothing of Faerun. But now that I know FR, if there's a new CRPG like NWN I go check it out, while I didn't for instance check out City of Heroes. Especially because I don't have the time to play and the money to buy all the CRPG that I've heard they are good.

And in the case of DDO, I KNOW that the fact that it is set in Eberron does not attract me personally, because I don't like Eberron ideas enough to make me invest on it on the PnP either (I'm convinced it's a good setting, anyway). I am pretty sure that if DDO was based on FR - even if I am not necessarily a "huge" fan - I would have been much more interested in trying it out.

Maybe it's different for others, but don't say that it's "absolutely irrelevant" because that's not the truth...

-

About WoWarcraft: IMO part of its success is indeed that it was built upon WC3 which was extremely successful (partly because of Starcraft). Lots of WC3 players wanted to try a game that featured expanded versions of WC3 heroes for example, and were hoping for a game that combined WC3 with Doom or similar...

 

[Li Shenron]

BTW, I am not saying that DDO will not be successful because it's Eberron instead of Faerun... Of course it will be hugely successful! But IMO most people will play DDO because it's D&D, so at the end they would not shun the entire game just because it's not their favourite setting. But maybe a few would. I guess that WotC chose Eberron because they researched that they would have benefitted more by pimping their latest setting, maybe it'll sell 1% less than if it was FR-based, but it would make more people buy Eberron books. (I suppose the makers of the DDO might have preferred the other way, but it's WotC who chooses what to license)

 

[Aaron L]

Actually, for the masses, setting is pretty much completely irrelevant.

World of Warcraft is much worse in this area than EverQuest was, because of the influx of Warcraft 3 players. I was unfortunate enough to join my friends WoW guild made up entirely of WC3 junkies, and they couldnt even concieve of roleplaying or speaking in character. It was a strategy game to them, a way to kill things and take thier stuff, and nothing more. The majority of players out there are like that: they dont give a flying fig for the setting.

Get on WoW and ask the average gamer what the name of the world is... youll get a blank stare. Ask about any historical points of the setting... same thing.


Now, ask about the newest piece of loot to come out, and youll get reams of info.


The mechanics and graphics are whats important to the masses who play.

 

[Thanee]

But Eberron ain't gonna do it.

That was my first thought, when I heard about DDO, altho I do think, that the name Dungeons & Dragons is more important than Eberron or Forgotten Realms, when it comes to marketing. Still, I believe, that a FR MMORPG would have it easier to be successful, than the fresher Eberron.

Bye
Thanee

 

[BeauNiddle]

That was my first thought, when I heard about DDO, altho I do think, that the name Dungeons & Dragons is more important than Eberron or Forgotten Realms, when it comes to marketing. Still, I believe, that a FR MMORPG would have it easier to be successful, than the fresher Eberron.

Bye
Thanee

One of the comments I saw on the DDO forums is that in FR at level 10 you're still not high enough to be trusted to look after Drizzts cats

If they implemented FR there all the fans would lynch them because they have to take liberties with the setting. The amount they are implementing in DDO is limited (currently) but the way they are implementing it is MUCH better than other MMORPGs.

One important thing to note tho is DDO is aiming at a niche market. There is not going to be another MMORPG bigger than WoW released in the foreseeable future and all companies now working on MMORPGs are going for niche markets. DDO is going for the action packed small group adventure based niche. Other ones (Vanguard IIRC) are going for the massive world feel, others are going for realm vs realm, etc.

I can give you all the latest info on DDO if your interested (likely to be pages long ) or you can go to the DDO forums are check it out yourself.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Yes, DDO is by Turbine Games, I believe, the fine folks who brought us those steaming piles of crap known as Ascheron's Call I & II. I'm not optimisitic. Honestly, I wouldn't care what setting a D&D MMOPG was done in, as long as it was done well.

The problem with doing D&D well is that D&D was meant to be played once a week with about four or five encounters per session. That's about 30 to 45 minutes of CRPG time.

Also D&D has 20 levels before you go epic, that really needs to be broken down a lot more finely. People need to level up more often (assuming we're increasing the exp you need to level, which you kinda gotta do as mentioned before).

I know DDO is trying to handle these issues. But my point is you can't do a true version of D&D because the nature of a tabletop game is quite different from a computer game.

 

[Thanee]

The amount they are implementing in DDO is limited (currently) but the way they are implementing it is MUCH better than other MMORPGs.

I don't have much hope for DDO to be a game I will really like, but I still hope to get proven wrong, of course.

Bye
Thanee

 

[francisca]

Personally of the three I'd vote for FR as it has the widest resource material.. largest body of work and longest success (sorry to Grayhawk apologists.. but that's just my opinion)

Ah, but see, that's one reason why I prefer GH over FR. I want a foundation to work on, not a complete backdrop. Frankly, outside the '80 Folio and the '83 boxed set, I've not used much of the GH material, either. Even taking just one of the FR boxed sets or the 3.0 FRCS book, it's way more than I want/need.

Different strokes, and all that I guess.

Back to the topic, I think Ralts is dead on about the multiple worlds and crossover. Toss in the world Magic:tG is set in, and you get another.

Whatever the case, I think the long term viability of D&D as a brand (which is much different than tabletop RPGs) is going to be tied to an MMORPG.

 

[Janx]

Actually, for the masses, setting is pretty much completely irrelevant.

World of Warcraft is much worse in this area than EverQuest was, because of the influx of Warcraft 3 players. I was unfortunate enough to join my friends WoW guild made up entirely of WC3 junkies, and they couldnt even concieve of roleplaying or speaking in character. It was a strategy game to them, a way to kill things and take thier stuff, and nothing more. The majority of players out there are like that: they dont give a flying fig for the setting.

Get on WoW and ask the average gamer what the name of the world is... youll get a blank stare. Ask about any historical points of the setting... same thing.


Now, ask about the newest piece of loot to come out, and youll get reams of info.


The mechanics and graphics are whats important to the masses who play.

That's probably the biggest difference between TRPGs and MMORPGs. online, few people roleplay in the "thespian" sense. While I don't want to witness actor-wanabes, I'd like to be able to interact with players and feel immersed in the world, and not feel like I'm chatting to some 16 year old kid. But you can't control how other players talk online.

If I were coding a MMORPG, I would try to incorporate:
voice support - chat to people within range/joined in party, typing optional
complex dialogue AI for NPCs so they don't seem like they only say one thing.
PC/XBOX/Playstation support - support all the online platforms on the same server
guilds/factions that drive storyline events and adventures
some PvP like dark alleys, arenas, and opposing faction combat
Server = region, allow people to set up custom regions

Janx

 

[werk]

I have no hard data.

Merely the fact that FR has a far larger fan base due to the old SSI games, the old NWN game on AOL, and the fact that FR has been out for far, far longer.

FR is older.

Wow, why do car manufacturers make new models? Obviously people just want to buy what they are familiar with over and over and over and over...

Why even bother writing new material, I mean really, what's the point?

(I bought the gray box Forgotten Realms campaign setting when it was released and heard a lot of your arguments from my friends that were playing dragonlance.)

Progress must progress.