A Dozen Crossbows Aimed at You ..

[Ghendar]

Say, your high level D&D character somehow finds himself in the sights of a dozen city watchmen with their crossbows. The watch leader says: "Drop your wands, weapons and holy symbols. You're under arrest". What do you think should happen?

Should the PC be able to survive all those hits?
Reality answer = No
D&D answer = Yes

It's always a problem when you try to add too much reality to your D&D. If you want reality then let's use the weapon vs armor rules from 1st Edition.

I'm not saying it can't be done but adding realism tends to complicate and slow down the game.

 

[Thanee]

Say, your high level D&D character somehow finds himself in the sights of a dozen city watchmen with their crossbows. The watch leader says: "Drop your wands, weapons and holy symbols. You're under arrest". What do you think should happen?

Fireball!

The rules say that you'll probably wipe the floor with lowly watchmen, ...

...and that's exactly what will happen in D&D, because D&D is heroic.

The characters know (from experience), that the crossbow bolts are not really dangerous to them, because of their superb armor and whatnot, they can basically ignore this threat.

If you want realistic situations happen you shouldn't really be playing with a heroic ruleset.

Bye
Thanee

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Within the rules, as written a good DM can make any situation dangerous to the PCs.

Maybe the bolts are enchanted so they always hit and do max damage, and they are repeating crossbows. If the PC looses 50% of his hit points it's a percentile roll to see if he dies.

Why not take this to its logical conclusion? The watchmen are all half-fiend dire tigers able to wield size Colossal crossbows and (if they choose) ignore hit point loss and saving throws.

Your example might make sense in a large, diverse DnD city (50,000+), but even then your it doesn't fall anywhere within the rules. Scaling the power of the city watch to match that of your 15th level superheroes really ruins the verismilitude of a campaign world.

 

[Raven Crowking]

If the question is limited to a dozen guards, then the PCs have a cakewalk. If N = any number, then given sufficient numbers the lower-level characters can eventually pull down the PCs and kill them.

 

[Henry]

If you really want to have this happen in a game of D&D without changing the rules dramatically, offer a story award of 100/1000/whatever Experience Points, and treat the guards as having access to an automatic Coup de Grace attempt on the PCs if they move to resist. In other words, it's like the Hero Point mechanic from Mutants and Masterminds, where in exchange for a contrived plot situation, the PCs get a reward. If they think they can beat the Coup de Grace, let them; if they don't want to chance it, just as in real life, then they do what the guards say.

If it's not that important an event, let the dice fall where they may as usual.

 

[Raven Crowking]

BTW, if you use the hit point/vitality rule, those dozen crossbows might well be a real threat.



RC

 

[Pbartender]

You really want to make this a difficult situation for the PCs? Have the guards rush to grapple and subdue. If you have a large number of guards, once one of them initiates a successful grapple, the PCs are in a tough spot. Here's the relevant bits:

Joining a Grapple

If your target is already grappling someone else, you can use an attack to start a grapple, as above, except that the target doesn’t get an attack of opportunity against you, and your grab automatically succeeds. You still have to make a successful opposed grapple check to become part of the grapple.

If there are multiple opponents involved in the grapple, you pick one to make the opposed grapple check against.

Multiple Grapplers

Several combatants can be in a single grapple. Up to four combatants can grapple a single opponent in a given round. Creatures that are one or more size categories smaller than you count for half, creatures that are one size category larger than you count double, and creatures two or more size categories larger count quadruple.

When you are grappling with multiple opponents, you choose one opponent to make an opposed check against. The exception is an attempt to escape from the grapple; to successfully escape, your grapple check must beat the check results of each opponent.

So, once one guard succeeds at a grapple check, three more guards pile on with automatic successes and no AoOs. Plus, the PC only gets to make one counter-grapple versus the guards' four grapple checks (ostensibly to pin the PC). The PC must beat all four guards' grapple to escape. And all the while any guards who aren't involved in the grapple can kick the snot out of a PC who probably doesn't have a Dexterity bonus to defense and can't fight fight back.

Much better than loaded crossbows.

 

[Psion]

What it "should" be depends on what I want out of a game at the moment. In some game, the heroes are vulnerable and have to watch themselves. In some games, the heroes are above mundane threats.

High level D&D is, by default, of the latter sort. To help your frame of mind, consider this.

First, picture your original scenario.

Now, picture your original scenario as an episode of Xena. What changed? You know what's gonna happen to the puckboy guards. There will be lots of high-pitched whooping, a blur of airborne females, flying sharp things, and when the dust settled, Xena and Gabrielle ride of into the sunset making lesbian innuendos.

Okay, the D&D rules wont give you that last part, and Xena may be a bit cheesy, but I'm trying to make a point about the sort of heroic fantasy that high level D&D represents. If you want gritty, you should feel free to house rule it or use a system that includes more risk, but don't make out like that sort of heroic fantasy is wrong. It just is.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Only for a particular type of game. Which D&D at higher levels, as written, is not.

Let's say a dozen normal human guardsmen have crossbows pointed at someone like Cuchulainn, Bhima, the Hulk, Blade, etc. There really is no risk for such characters. And that's the way higher-lvl D&D works.

True. High level D&D is Superheroes, heck once a certain level is reached the PC's spend half their time flying and teleporting around instead of walking like mortals.

 

[Raven Crowking]

So, once one guard succeeds at a grapple check, three more guards pile on with automatic successes and no AoOs. Plus, the PC only gets to make one counter-grapple versus the guards' four grapple checks (ostensibly to pin the PC). The PC must beat all four guards' grapple to escape. And all the while any guards who aren't involved in the grapple can kick the snot out of a PC who probably doesn't have a Dexterity bonus to defense and can't fight fight back.

Much better than loaded crossbows.

And don't forget that some of those non-grappling guards can Aid Another the grapplers.

RC