A Dozen Crossbows Aimed at You ..

[Arkham]

The caster would just drop a chain lightning, fireball, cloudkill, etc point blank. Then everyone dramatically walks out of the alley, barely more than scratched.

At Level 15, you're legendary. Almost half your career has passed since your cleric friend learned to bring the dead back to life. Your wizard companion can reduce people to component particles. Your barbarian friend wouldn't even _feel_ most of the arrows even if they connected. The rogue has already started pick-pocketing the ammo from the leader.

If you want city guards to be a threat, don't run high-level games.

 

[Stalker0]

As others have said, high level DND is not the same ballgame as midlevel DND. This is what chafes at a lot of people. Once your levels go past a certain point the game style just changes.

15 guards with crossbows won't do anything to a 15th level character, nor should it. No one had a problem with Gimli or Aragon taking on 100s of orcs without even getting hurt

Now if you want to make this scenario deadly, throw an antimagic field in the mix.

BAM!! All of a sudden the fighter's AC is so high anymore, and while is hps are really good, there probably still in the range where a lot of bolts plus a few crits could actually take him down. The wizards' AC is garbage, and his hitpoints are pretty weak. This is a scenario that might actually make a high level character sweat.

But with their magic? Not a chance.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Back a while in the HR Forum we crunched on a variant of the same situation.. the typical BBEG holding a knife the the lovely neck of the to be rescued princess and demanding to be let free...

I lost the link to the thread, but kept the HR I ended up adopting..

Action: 'Ambuscade'
You ready an action to attack a target who is surprised and denied Dex. The normal combat sequence pauses, allowing for diplomacy or other non-lethal means to end the encounter. Your critical range for the attack is increased by your level or HD, whichever is higher. If struck the target must make a Fort save vs the damage taken. Failure drops the character to -1 hps. {assuming the normal damage taken does not go further than this}
- Limitations: This action can only be taken when wielding a Piercing melee weapon that threatens the target or a Piercing ranged weapons at a range no greater then 30'.

An opponent may attempt to bypass your Ambuscade with a Bluff check vs your Sense Motive check.
- If successful, that opponent may take a standard action before your readied action triggers. Another opponent may attempt a follow-up bypass. You gain a +5 bonus to Sense Motive for each successful bypass. An opponent may only bypass your ambuscade once.
- If the attempt fails, the ready action is triggered.

This action is a bit powerful but has a number of limitations and 'outs' so it is not an insta-kill manuever. Even if the BBEG slices the darling neck to shreds the good guys have a chance to save her.

Even with this HR in place, I agree with Arkham's statement of "If you want city guards to be a threat, don't run high-level games."

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The caster would just drop a chain lightning, fireball, cloudkill, etc point blank. Then everyone dramatically walks out of the alley, barely more than scratched.

At Level 15, you're legendary. Almost half your career has passed since your cleric friend learned to bring the dead back to life. Your wizard companion can reduce people to component particles. Your barbarian friend wouldn't even _feel_ most of the arrows even if they connected. The rogue has already started pick-pocketing the ammo from the leader.

If you want city guards to be a threat, don't run high-level games.

By that logic, what stops game worlds from being anarchic messes where high-level characters blow into town, slaughter all the guards and wander off with impugnity?

Surely there's some check on the power of high-level NPCs other than adventurers. Outside of the Forgotten Realms, there aren't enough of them to prevent civilization being brought to its knees.

 

[takyris]

The PCs win easily. If the DM doesn't want his 15th level party to wade through X 2nd-level NPCs, then the DM should run a different game or use variant rules.

If those crossbows become Composite Longbows, Mighty to +2, and the guards all have Point Blank Shot (both possible for very elite guardsmen), simply switching over to d20 Modern's rules for massive damage would make the scenario warrant a bit more PC thought. (On a crit, the bows would do 3d8+9, and the PC would likely have to make a Fort save or drop to -1 hit points from massive damage.)

Personally, any game I run from now on will likely use d20 Modern's massive damage rules, just to handle scenarios like this. But D&D is designed to be more heroic than that.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

What's the D20 Modern version of massive damage? I'm not following.

 

[Woas]

Personally I would use a sort of altered Mob rule from DMGII for those guards.

Basically they would be considered a mob of humanoids but I would be sort of open about the actual foot-print they make on a battle mat. Mobs also deal damage like a swarm so technically they would need to take up the same space, but I would be open on that rule too and say since all the guards are aiming crossbows at the player characters, they would do piercing damage at a fairly reduced range. So they would have at least a +22 to hit and do 5d6 piercing damage. Thats just all off the top of my head in 2 minutes so I'm sure it could be refined a little bit...

but thats what I would do. I agree with both sides really. Yes D&D is all about heroic fantasy and the story of a single paladin slaying the elder dragon with his lance and all that. But on the other hand there has to be a line somewhere... a D&D world where at a certain level of experience, the only reason society even exists is because of the self-conscious of the higher level members of society not out right screwing everyone over and doing whatever they want since nobody else other than more higher level people could even think about stopping them.

 

[Rhun]

What's the D20 Modern version of massive damage? I'm not following.

Massive Damage Threshold is equal to your CON.

 

[pallandrome]

I agree with the "depends on the campaign flavor" crowd. In straight up DnD, there isn't a chance in hell 15 average town guards are gonna take a level 15 PC. Any of the classes would be able to take them out without breaking a sweat. You gotta remember, high level DnD PCs are like comic book characters. Would fifteen guards with crossbows have a chance of taking out Spiderman? How about The Hulk? Didn't think so.

 

[Squire James]

Yes, we ARE talking D&D here... the PC's walk/fly/teleport when and where they want to by the time they hit level 15. And a BBEG's best use for a hostage is the +4 cover bonus to AC.

If you are a DM, and you want to pull the "dozens of missile weapons are aimed in your direction" schtick, do it while the PC's are low-to-mid level when it will mean something. It would be like having a murder mystery with 5 suspects and a level 10 cleric in the party: the only mystery is what the cleric will do with his additional 5-9 questions!