A few comments from a playtester

[PrecociousApprentice]

Good thing for you Primal, you can't just start tossing fireballs the day after deciding to become a wizard. You start with the wizard multiclass feat. That gets you an at-will that only works as a per-encounter. Then after two levels with that (as I recall, you get a feat every two levels), then you can get fire ball. There you go apprenticeship. Admittedly a very focussed apprenticeship, but there is a delay built in.

 

[Rechan]

Let's make it even more "exciting" and "fun": no need to burn a Feat -- you may pick whatever powers you want. Want a cleric/fighter/wizard/warlord/ranger? Just pick anything appropriate for your level from all the lists. It would not be balanced, but certainly more fun, right?

My, how hyperbolic of you.

No one is saying fun at the expense of mechanical balance.

However, fun at the expense of a tiny bit of verisimilitude, yes.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

Good thing for you Primal, you can't just start tossing fireballs the day after deciding to become a wizard. You start with the wizard multiclass feat. That gets you an at-will that only works as a per-encounter. Then after two levels with that (as I recall, you get a feat every two levels), then you can get fire ball. There you go apprenticeship. Admittedly a very focussed apprenticeship, but there is a delay built in.

Except that you can retrain a feat, so durring one level you retain an existing feat to become multiclass, than spend your new feat to get fireball.

 

[Rechan]

Except that you can retrain a feat, so durring one level you retain an existing feat to become multiclass, than spend your new feat to get fireball.

Could you show us where it says that you can swap a pre-requisit feat for one higher up the ladder, and still be able to use the higher one now that you lack the pre-requisit.

 

[PrecociousApprentice]

I don't think that is what he means. He means that you could use a new feat for a prerequisite and retrain into the higher level powerswap feat for fireball. Good point, but that seems to be a problem of retraining and not multiclassing.

 

[Rechan]

I don't think that is what he means. He means that you could use a new feat for a prerequisite and retrain into the higher level powerswap feat for fireball.

Which is the same, semantically speaking, of retraining an Old feat for the Initiate feat and pick the higher level powerswap for your new feat.

But the same argument could be used for a fighter feat that has a pre-requisit feat that you don't have, so you retrain for that.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Do we even know if all feats can be retrained, or acquired through retraining?

I could see rules where certain feats can only be gained through taking them as a feat and not through retraining. So minor feats can be gained through retraining/can be retrained. Major feats have to be gained through feats and cannot be retrained.

 

[PrecociousApprentice]

EDIT: Reply to Rechan
Right, making it a problem with retraining and not the multiclass rules. I Thought that your pre-rec feat reference was for the multiclass feats. Sorry, my bad.

 

[Rechan]

Right, making it a problem with retraining and not the multiclass rules.

Well I don't see it as a problem. The issue here is not whether they're balanced or not. The issue is "Does this seem realistic"?

 

[PrecociousApprentice]

No, but I would say that avoiding the "realistic" arguments are good if we actually want to make sense about fantasy.