A few ideas for the Crossbow

[Three_Haligonians]

Hey,

It's pretty well established that Crossbows just don't make the grade against their Bow counterparts so I thought of some things to do to help them out and I thought who better to bounce them off of than the ENWorld crew.

1. Remove the AoO: It seems to me that drawing an arrow, nocking it in the bow, taking aim and then firing are all part of one standard action. It makes sense to me why this would draw an Attack of Opportunity in melee combat. The crossbow on the other hand, seems to have split up drawing and loading the bolt with aiming and firing into two different actions so why not say the loading causes an AoO (which I think it does anyway) but the actual firing does not (since it's just the quick pull of the trigger anyway).

2. Mighty Crossbows: Simillar to Mighty bows, the mighty crossbow allows a Str bonus to be applied to the damage. The kicker here is that it is not the Character's Str bonus, but a seperate Str bonus determined soley by the crossbow. So that if a character with a 10 str purchased a Mighty Crossbow +3, they would add 3 to the damage of each shot.

Just some quick and rough ideas and any feedback, from "I love it!" to "Your clearly insane!" would be appriciated.

J from Three Haligonians

 

[Undead Lincoln]

The first is definatly not a problem.

As for mighty crossbows, there should probably be some drawback. I would allow mighty on heavy crossbows only, up to +8 with each +2 of damage increasing the loading time by one full round action. It has decent flavor, and not every bow that must be cranked to draw could be readied in six seconds.

 

[Li Shenron]

Point 1 would make a lot of sense. As you say, firing a loaded crossbow may be quite similar to shooting with a loaded gun, which seems more a free action actually (but let's not go too far, ok?).

One problem could be someone arguing that this should be done for a bow as well, if the archer chooses to take 2 actions (a MEA for loading, a Standard for shooting) instead of the usually more convenient single standard action, but as long as no one comes up with this, it should be ok (and doing such a thing won't let an archer fire more than once per round anyway).

So, IMO it basically should work. I have to say however, that normally the AoO isn't itself a big deal: ranged attackers simply take a 5ft step to avoid that, so only in some circumstances it makes a difference. PLUS, since the crossbowman indeed takes an AoO when loading, there's no true advantage for a crossbowman in melee! One could have the xbow loaded, move to melee range, and shoot, but that (1) would not be better than moving to 10ft range, (2) would not happen often.

About 2, I like the idea of a better non-magical xbow. Just be sure not to go too far with the bonus, and to let it COST enough

 

[Lobo Lurker]

As for mighty crossbows, there should probably be some drawback. I would allow mighty on heavy crossbows only, up to +8 with each +2 of damage increasing the loading time by one full round action. It has decent flavor, and not every bow that must be cranked to draw could be readied in six seconds.

That's a little harsh. You don't do this to wielders of Mighty bows do you?How about this...

1) Mighty for Heavy X-bows only (I'd be tempted to allow 1-2 points of Mighty on Light X-bows myself) up to a +8 damage modifier.
2) If the wielder possesses an inferior strength score than the crossbow, then the weilder must spend an extra full-round action to load the crossbow as he must use a crank to pull back the drawstring. For me, an Ogre is going to have an easier time loading a heavy crossbow than your old granny. She'll have to crank and crank and crank while the ogre just hooks his finger on the string and yanks back.
3) Price: double what it costs to have a Mighty Short/Longbow.

Thoughts?

 

[Aaron2]

2) If the wielder possesses an inferior strength score than the crossbow, then the weilder must spend an extra full-round action to load the crossbow as he must use a crank to pull back the drawstring. For me, an Ogre is going to have an easier time loading a heavy crossbow than your old granny. She'll have to crank and crank and crank while the ogre just hooks his finger on the string and yanks back.

From what I've seen, a windlass had an 18:1 mechanical advantage. So it isn't possible for just anyone to use it by spending more time. You would need to buy a specially designed windlass to do that. Thus a mighty xbow should cost more and take longer to span depending on how low the users strength was.


Aaron

 

[JimAde]

There are balance issues to consider, don't forget. Crossbows are less good than bows, but they are also simple weapons and nearly everybody is proficient with them. A rogue who doesn't provoke AoO with a ranged attack is a notable power-up. I understand he would still provoke while loading, but...

 

[Undead Lincoln]

The reason I suggested that it take extra time to load is for balancing purposes. The cost, after second or third level of non-magical equipment does not really qualify as a balancing facter because of the much greater cost of magical equipment. Anyhow it emphasizes something important about crossbows. It takes to long to load crossbows in a close quarter fight. However a loaded crossbow at the begininning of that fight is quite the advantage.

 

[Corlon]

How about you can make mighty crossbows, but for each bonus that the character does not have, it takes an extra ___ rounds or actions to work, and if you don't have the bonus you need a special wench.

In this way, a crossbow can be the same as a bow that can be fired while prone, more easily hidden, and doesn't require martial weapon proficiency for the price of a feat (quick reload)

 

[Terath Ninir]

Here's an idea I just had: if you have your crossbow already loaded and you aren't flat-footed, you can fire it as an Immediate Action (which won't provoke an attack of opportunity). Thus, you could fire it on someone else's turn -- but only once per turn, and only if you haven't done some other swift or immediate action.

That would make people fear crossbows a darn sight more. And it's (fairly) realistic. Someone who has a gun pointed at you has the advantage on you. Yes, it makes a simple weapon rather more powerful, but that's life, which doesn't care much about game balance.

 

[GreatLemur]

I never considered it before, but removing the AoO for firing a crossbow makes a damned lot of sense. It's far too simple and quick an action to say that someone has to drop their defenses to do it.

Heavy-pull (mighty) crossbows that do extra damage but take longer to load also sound like a completely logical and balanced idea.