A few questions that have came up.. (Quicken, Darkvision, Command)

[Moon_Goddess]

I've always worked under the basic assumetion that Sorcerers, bards and any other spontanious caster couldn't use the quicken spell feat, (Or at least it's useless to them) I got that idea from reading these boards, I assume everyone followed this rule. But where did we get this from. Reading the PHB, I'm no longer so sure. Spontainious Metamagic makes any spell with 1 action a full round action, or full round take another. Quicken makes any spell full round action or less a free action.

Example Fireball, casting time 1 action
Applying Quicken First casting time becomes free action and no longer affected by Spontainous Metamagic.

Applying Spontainous Metamagic first fireball becomes full round action, then quicken drops this to free.


Did I miss something or have I been assuming wrong all along?

Darkvision
My impression of Darkvision is based upon the picture of the mind flayer in the DMG. It shows an outline mearly the shape of the Mind Flayer. I liken it to Magical Radar This doesn't exactly seem to be the case in the description, So, did WOTC drop the ball on that one, and mess up the picture? Or can you really not read, or see other things without depth with Darkvision.


Command
(Seems like this is one of the most asked about spells)
This came up in game, player had command cast on him, the command was "Come" He proceeded to carry out the command to the best of his ability waking in a straight line toward the caster, but he wanted to hand something to another player that he passed by on the way. DM ruled that not only must you carry out the command give but you can do NOTHING else for the duration. I disagree.

 

[Rybaer]

Here's a quick take on your three questions (though they might not be exactly correct)...

Spontaneous casters gain little from quicken because they still must take a full round to augment a spell with metamagic. However, there is a feat in the Tomb and Blood book (Arcane Preparation) that allows spontaneous casters to prepare some of their spells ahead of time with metamagic feats, much in the same manner as a wizard would prepare his spells. In this case, the spontaneous caster could take advantage of quicken...it's just at the cost of two feats and some advanced preparation.

Darkvision - I'm not certain about the ability to read text with this one, but I'd lean toward allowing it. From the DM guide, it basically says that it works like ordinary vision except it's in black and white (which does facilitate reading) and it's limited by range. I wouldn't use the illustration as a basis for determining effect.

Command - I would not allow the victim of a Command spell to perform other actions aside from that which they were ordered to do for the round. Consider it an overriding compulsion to do that one thing to the exclusion of all else. Otherwise, were an opponent to hit a PC with the command "come", the PC could interpret that as a charge attack. I recommend the target having to take the simplest interpretation and do nothing else for the round. As another example of how someone could get around your "come" example would be to hit an opponent monk with it...who then proceeds to spring attack another opponent en route to obeying the caster's command.

Hope that helps.

 

[Wolf72]

house rule option

there's an option for spontaneous casters ... definitely a house rule.

A bard/sorc could learn a metamagicked spell by itself. For example a silenced fireball (lvl 4) could be learned as a 4th lvl spell and takes up a 4th lvl slot. The caster still does not learn the metamagic feat and can not use it on other spells. If the caster later learns that metamagic feat then that 4th lvl fireball is basically wasted ... except now it can be cast as a spell with 1 action rather than 1 rnd

 

[Moon_Goddess]

Here's a quick take on your three questions (though they might not be exactly correct)...

Spontaneous casters gain little from quicken because they still must take a full round to augment a spell with metamagic. However, there is a feat in the Tomb and Blood book (Arcane Preparation) that allows spontaneous casters to prepare some of their spells ahead of time with metamagic feats, much in the same manner as a wizard would prepare his spells. In this case, the spontaneous caster could take advantage of quicken...it's just at the cost of two feats and some advanced preparation.

My only problem with this is, that's not what it says in the PHB. Not every Sor spell is increased to one round. Those with 1 action are made full round, those with full round add another round. Quicken makes anything Full round or less a free action, so the metamagiced Fireball (Casting time now Full Round action) would be reduced to a free action by the Quicken.

Darkvision - I'm not certain about the ability to read text with this one, but I'd lean toward allowing it. From the DM guide, it basically says that it works like ordinary vision except it's in black and white (which does facilitate reading) and it's limited by range. I wouldn't use the illustration as a basis for determining effect.

.

Yeah, I agree, just hate it that the picture so you could understand a brand new ability was so blatently wrong. As for reading in darkvision, what about yellow text on green paper.

 

[bret]

The effect of the MMF Quicken can only happen after you've applied it. In order to apply the MMF, you would have to spend a full round casting the spell. Now that you've applied it, it makes casting the spell a free action.

So the spell now takes full round (apply the MMF) + free action = full round to cast.

Is that any clearer?


As a house rule, if you want there to be some advantage to spontaneous casters using this feat you could say it takes a MEA to apply MMFs to a spell. That way it would take a MEA to quicken the spell, plus a free action to cast it for a total of a MEA. This would allow you to get two spells off in the same round.

I wouldn't suggest it. Spontaneous casters have enough advantages, leave the Quickened spells for the wizards. Any spontaneous caster could take the Arcane Preparation feat from Tome & Blood. This would also allow them to qualify for the Mage of the Arcane Order PrC, which gives a Sorcerer a great perk.

 

[WCT-1]

Here is what cleared it up for me:

"Sorcerers should approach metamagic feats with caution. When you use a metamagic feat, it's a full-round action to cast the spell. You can't take a move action during that round which could be dangerous in a fight. For a sorcerer, Quicken Spell isn't worth even considering." [T&B 5]

My interpretation is that the full-round requirement for sorcerers overrides the free action effect of a quicken spell.

Hope this helps.

Later Taters,
WCT-1

 

[Psyduck]

The effect of the MMF Quicken can only happen after you've applied it. In order to apply the MMF, you would have to spend a full round casting the spell. Now that you've applied it, it makes casting the spell a free action.

So the spell now takes full round (apply the MMF) + free action = full round to cast.

Is that any clearer?

Actually Bret, this is a bad example, IMO:

The sorcerer would have to spend a full round to cast the spell to apply the quicken feat. I don't have my PhB with me, but does that mean that the wizards would have to spend 1 action to apply the same feat, leaving the casting time as 1 action?

However, you are right. It indicates in T&B that it's pointless for a sorcerer to take it.

 

[kreynolds]

The sorcerer would have to spend a full round to cast the spell to apply the quicken feat. I don't have my PhB with me, but does that mean that the wizards would have to spend 1 action to apply the same feat, leaving the casting time as 1 action?

Heck no, boy! Wizards prepare the Quickened Spell ahead of time.

 

[Artoomis]

A soceror must spend their entire protion of the round to apply metamagic to a spell. So here is how it goes:

You are almost correct about this:

Applying Spontainous Metamagic first fireball becomes full round action, then quicken drops this to free.

The corrected statement is:

Applying Spontainous Metamagic first fireball becomes full round action. You now spend your full-round action. Then quicken drops the casting time to a free action.

Not much benefit then, since you've already used a full-round action.

For what I think are obvious reasons, you don't get to apply the Quicken feat before you spent the cost (a full-round action) to use it.

 

[Petrosian]

The DND FAQ at worcs site answered the quicken/spont question.

It take a FRA.