A Flaw with saving throws or is there

[Hypersmurf]

Right. And therefore I wouldn't let any ability that had the exact same in-game effect as sleep or paralysis, but had happened to be assigned a different name, affect dragons any differently.

It definitely doesn't have the same in-game effect as paralysis, since you're still aware and can take mental actions while paralyzed.

And if it has the exact same in-game effect as sleep, then Elves are immune.

-Hyp.

 

[dcollins]

No, I said: like "paralysis and sleep effects". Not one or the other.

 

[Hypersmurf]

No, I said: like "paralysis and sleep effects". Not one or the other.

Interestingly, the Type description for dragons phrases it "Immunity to magic sleep effects and paralysis effects".

According to that non-magical sleep poison (not a magic sleep effect) would work.

It also more clearly shows that the immunity is not to effects of a 'sleep or paralysis' nature, but to 'effects of a sleep nature' and 'effects of a paralysis nature'.

Unconsciousness poison is not a magic sleep effect, nor is it a paralysis effect.

-Hyp.

 

[dcollins]

I disagree.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I disagree.

I figured

-Hyp.

 

[Anditch]

If you had a DM that constantly gave you saving throws that required a natural 20 to pass. Would you think that he was a good DM. Would you think the DM was any good if he constantly gave you DC saves of 2+ or even AC that require a 2+ to hit or a save of 20. No this would be a very poor DM. So if you oviviously get a poison which is DC14 and I have a Fort save of 15 with all my items and everything calculated. This oviviously is a poison that is aimed at lower level chars not 17th level character as mine is. So if the DC rating for a save is lower than your Save rating then why not have a rule that squashes the need to role as you are naturally resistant to that effect because you have a higher save rating.

 

[Hypersmurf]

So if the DC rating for a save is lower than your Save rating then why not have a rule that squashes the need to role as you are naturally resistant to that effect because you have a higher save rating.

Ahh... you're looking for the House Rules Forum...

-Hyp.

 

[Faerl'Elghinn]

Personally, I tend to agree with the original poster in this instance. It makes no sense to me that a character who is completely beyond the scope of a challenge should have the same chance of failure as one whose save bonus is merely one less than the DC. It seems right that the chance of automatic failure should at least lessen as one becomes more powerful and/or skilled. Why should a character with a +25 save have the same chance of failure versus a DC 14 as a character with a +13 save? 5% just doesn't seem to classify an event as a "freak accident" to me...

 

[wally]

Maybe I missed it earlier in the thread, but I need to ask. There are those that are saying that a natural '1' shouldn't necessarily equate to an automatic failure. Are you that say this also saying that a natural '20' shouldn't equate to an automatic success?

-wally

 

[RigaMortus]

More to the point, I would not allow dragons to be knocked out by color spray. If you're immune to paralysis and sleep, that reads like it must cover unconsciousness.

Does this mean a Dragon does not go "unconcious" between -1 and -9 HP? After all, they are immune to unconcsiousness right? And being between -1 and -9 has similiar effects as sleep. Right?