# Level Up (A5E)A followup on Encounter Math

#### Stalker0

##### Legend
So I was making some new encounters for a dungeon crawl type adventure...and still wondering if something is missing in the encounter math.

I have 5 6th level players, so a CR budget of 10 is an "easy" fight.

I was looking at the Warrior NPC in the back of the book (there are a lot of good npcs btw, bravo), which is a CR 1/8. So literally 80 of these guys is supposed to be an easy encounter. Obviously there has to be some reasonability check on the DM, but I can't imagine a normal 6th level group being able to take on 80 of these guys, let alone for it to be "easy", they would all have to stand in like a fireball square for that to be true. 80 of those guys would do an average of 80 damage a round to an AC 20 character.

It just seems that there needs to be some accounting for CR adjustments when the number of creatures gets to a large threshold.

Barring that, is there some "number limit" that the CR system was tested for that I should include? Aka any number above 20 or something is considered "out of the bounds of the system"?

#### VenerableBede

The recommended number is already in there.

Trials and Treasures, page 46 (emphasis added):
"Sometimes a party finds itself wading through an army of lowly mooks. This kind of battle will be very easy for adventurers with access to area attack spells like fireball. On the other hand, it might overwhelm a part of rogues or other adventurers that specialize in damaging a single enemy.
Depending on its composition, a party might be able to deal with a force up to 5 times its size as long as the total CR of all enemies isn't higher than half the total character level. (Remember that for tier 1 adventurers, fractional CRs are doubled!)
For example, four 5th level adventurers are in good stead to defeat 20 hobgoblins (CR 1/2 each). If the party has two spellcasters, it's likely they wipe the floor with the hobgoblins. If the party has only melee combatants like rogues or fighters, however, they might have a tough time or even be overwhelmed."

#### WarDriveWorley

##### Hero
According to what I'm reading on the ENCOUNTER CR FOR DIFFERENT PARTY SIZES table (Trials and Treasures page 42) the encounter CR for that group should be 5 for an easy combat which matches the math on page 41. 10 would count as a Medium encounter. Also as @VenerableBede points out there is guidance on horde battles.

#### Stalker0

##### Legend
The recommended number is already in there.

Trials and Treasures, page 46 (emphasis added):
"Sometimes a party finds itself wading through an army of lowly mooks. This kind of battle will be very easy for adventurers with access to area attack spells like fireball. On the other hand, it might overwhelm a part of rogues or other adventurers that specialize in damaging a single enemy.
Depending on its composition, a party might be able to deal with a force up to 5 times its size as long as the total CR of all enemies isn't higher than half the total character level. (Remember that for tier 1 adventurers, fractional CRs are doubled!)
For example, four 5th level adventurers are in good stead to defeat 20 hobgoblins (CR 1/2 each). If the party has two spellcasters, it's likely they wipe the floor with the hobgoblins. If the party has only melee combatants like rogues or fighters, however, they might have a tough time or even be overwhelmed."
Perfect, thank you. Now why that's not in the MM I'll leave for the myths and legends, but I'll take it!

#### VenerableBede

Perfect, thank you. Now why that's not in the MM I'll leave for the myths and legends, but I'll take it!
Sometimes I wonder why certain content is in one book but not another (or multiple), but I think the intent is that you can have both books open side-by-side rather than having to flip through one and hold several places.

#### Stalker0

##### Legend
Sometimes I wonder why certain content is in one book but not another (or multiple), but I think the intent is that you can have both books open side-by-side rather than having to flip through one and hold several places.
eh I don't buy that one. For one, the books are not an automatic set, it is assumed some people bought one and not the other.

But two, all of the other encounter math and CR customizations are in the MM, so this feels a bit weird not to be there. My guess is its probably just pure page count and formatting, they had a lot of stuff to get in the books, and had to find a place to put everything but not balloon one books page count over another. Sometimes that leads to a little weirdness of X and Y.

#### Fanaelialae

##### Legend
Perfect, thank you. Now why that's not in the MM I'll leave for the myths and legends, but I'll take it!
It's also in the MM, pg 510, under Hordes.

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