D&D General A glimpse at WoTC's current view of Rule 0

[pemerton]

Why? What you mean? To me it would be unimmersive to able to spawn reality around me at will, if that is not what the character can do.

But you're not "spawning reality".

Consider this: in a book that you are reading - a work of fiction - the author might refer to trees. And given that other features of the book make you think the fiction is set somewhere more-or-less temperate European, you probably imagine deciduous trees. And if the fiction also says or strongly implies its spring or summer (eg there's no reference to snow or cold winds, there is reference to sunshine and golden crops in the fields), then you will imagine leaves on those trees.

That is not you "spawning reality". That is you immersing yourself, imaginatively, in the fiction you are reading.

Now, suppose that the GM tells you there is a tavern. Are you expected - contrary to all intuition - to refrain from imagining anything? For my part, and I am guessing @TwoSix's also, I imagine stuff that flows naturally from what the GM has said, and other established or implied fictional context - so a fireplace, tables and benches, patrons drinking ale, etc.

And so when I then declare "I punch the nearest guy in the face" I'm not "spawning reality". I'm sharing my imagination, and acting on it.

To have to refrain from imagining anything until the GM tells me - eg there's a tavern, but it has no particular look, no particular people in it, no particular furnishing, etc - is extremely un-immersive. It's not how I engage with written fiction. It's not at all intuitive.

 

[TiQuinn]

Getting people to communicate that sort of thing properly isn't always that easy, either, any more than it is any number of other places in human endeavor.

Knowing that’s the way to do it is something that needs to be taught, but once someone learns that’s an approach…no, I don’t buy that it’s difficult.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I just disagree with your statement of fact that a particular style of play was "fringe" i.e. extremely rare. Believe what you want, it really doesn't matter.

It apparently mattered enough for you to object to it.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Does the OSR community not count?

They certainly exist, but not all of them do nothing but sandboxes all the time either, so when viewing the hobby as a whole or just the broad D&D sphere, they aren't exactly an indication of it being common.

 

[Thomas Shey]

How exactly have you observed the popularity of the adventure path over other forms of gaming in sufficient numbers to be confident its the most popular one?

Its not just the adventure paths. That's just an external example that can be pointed at. But as I followed the hobby over the years, I saw less and less mention of what would be considered sandboxes anywhere, and I think I saw enough to at least be as representative as anything anyone could see, and more than most have.

 

[Thomas Shey]

How is allowing player agency a fringe approach?

When apparently there's no limit on it besides what is constrained in game. Player agency is a virtue, but I don't see much sign people consider it so paramount they're willing to let people regularly detonate campaigns or take them in directions they're not interested in.

Its not favoring that, but favoring it with no limits that's fringe. There can be any number of reasons people will say "Could you not do that?" or in more extreme cases "No. We're not going where that would go." (See the reaction of any number of people to evil characters or play).

 

[Thomas Shey]

Well, not quite. You chase that result until it gets resolved, then either move on to whatever else has caught people's attention in the meantime (and-)or return to your previously-planned story.

The problem is with the kinds of set ups I'm talking about, its pretty likely returning isn't possible. You've burned the bridges that allowed you to be in the position that made it possible.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Knowing that’s the way to do it is something that needs to be taught, but once someone learns that’s an approach…no, I don’t buy that it’s difficult.

My experience with people in general suggests to me you're an optimist.

 

[grankless]

132 pages of some people saying "different things are possible" and others saying "nu uh". Truly impressive... This thread has drifted to like 6 different topics at this point.

 

[Campbell]

Nobody has said otherwise.

Do you think it would be possible to not frame their desire to have creative input as world bending power?