A Hit and a Miss

[Neonchameleon]

In my defense, I am honestly not a prude. But finding out 20 some odd pages into the book that it was basically a game of Swingers Club set against a post apocalyptic backdrop, especially after being so blown away by Dogs, was kind of a let down.

I know that the mechanics from Apocalypse World are used in a couple of other games. Has anyone here played any of these? Do they all have that run of "these are the wacky tantric super powers we use on each other while our characters are sleeping with each other" mechanics built into them? Am I that far off base on this?

Yes, this is thread necromancy because the thread's just been linked.

First on Tantric Superpowers, not really. There are consequences to sex. Get too close to the mind-reading psychic (the Brainer) and you get your mind read. If you're the Driver you want to keep moving - so allowing someone that close is bad. It's effective but takes approximately three seconds per character sheet to tip-ex that paragraph out and this has no consequence to the rest of the game.

Second, do any of the other PbtA games have sex moves? I can think of precisely one that does. The superb Monsterhearts. But when I'm looking for great games I'm not going to introduce to my home group, Monsterhearts is Exhibit A. It's a superb deconstruction/reconstruction of the Teen Horror genre - and there's quite a lot of sex in that. And it frequently backfires. Depending on your group Monsterhearts is either a superb game or a terrible one. And the sex moves really aren't removable from Monsterhearts.

 

[Herobizkit]

Also, in an apocalyptic world where the value of life fluctuates so frequently, a person could use sex as barter just as much as a means of vamping/controlling an NPC. The grim, gritty reality of an apoc setting (to me) is that the concept of romance is removed from sex; sex then becomes a means to an end, whatever that may be.

 

[ShadowAssassin]

I guess Night Witches is a no-go for your folks then.

 

[Nytmare]

Also, in an apocalyptic world where the value of life fluctuates so frequently, a person could use sex as barter just as much as a means of vamping/controlling an NPC. The grim, gritty reality of an apoc setting (to me) is that the concept of romance is removed from sex; sex then becomes a means to an end, whatever that may be.

But (and forgive me, I no longer have the book and I'm flying by two year old memories at this point) sex isn't used in the game as a means to barter or control an NPC. The moves only work between PCs, and only one character class would have the "have sex with a player character to have them give you an item" move, and a totally different class would have the "have sex with a player character to control how they act" move. The rules didn't seem to be about how sex affects interactions with the game world, it was about how sex affected the interactions between a handful of character archetypes.

The real stumbling block for me to taking the idea more seriously was the Battle Babe character class whose sex move is that she can have sex with a PC to stop that person's sex move from affecting her. What sense does that make? It's the Useless Box of character classes.

I guess Night Witches is a no-go for your folks then.

I'm bummed that I missed this Kickstarter, I'm a huge fan of Morningstar's stuff, and I'm going to go grab the pdf as soon as I'm done writing this post. To me, after a super quick breeze through of the pdf teaser and the handouts downloads (and once again without a copy of Apocalypse World to compare it to), I think that the difference is that Night Witches is a game where the possibility of a sexual relationship is presented as a means to achieve certain dramatic goals. In Apocalypse World, it felt like sex was a player vs player exchange of once a day spell effects and mechanical benefits.

 

[Neonchameleon]

But (and forgive me, I no longer have the book and I'm flying by two year old memories at this point) sex isn't used in the game as a means to barter or control an NPC. The moves only work between PCs, and only one character class would have the "have sex with a player character to have them give you an item" move, and a totally different class would have the "have sex with a player character to control how they act" move.

OK. Firstly, there is no "Have sex with a player character to control how they act" move. The closest is that both the creepy psychic reads whoever's mind. Every single sex move that controls actions controls the actions of the person with that move. Secondly every single move that makes mechanical sense to work with NPCs does. The Brainer gets to read the mind of NPCs and PCs alike. The Hardholder gives them gifts. The moves that don't work with NPCs are the moves that trigger on Hx - you can get to know the NPCs better, but unlike for PCs there's no mechanical stat for how well you know NPCs.

The real stumbling block for me to taking the idea more seriously was the Battle Babe character class whose sex move is that she can have sex with a PC to stop that person's sex move from affecting her. What sense does that make? It's the Useless Box of character classes.

The Battlebabe is the no-strings-attached character in all ways. They are ridiculously Cool and can Act Under Fire almost at will. And you misunderstand the Battlebabe's sex move. Their sex move doesn't just mean that the sex move doesn't affect them - it doesn't affect the person with it either. The Driver is commitment-phobic and has a negative sex move. The Battlebabe is no strings attached character - therefore the driver isn't scared of commitment with the Battlebabe. But the Battlebabe is so cool because they always wear a mask therefore people don't get to know them better and they don't get to know others better.

 

[Nytmare]

I forget what Hx is. Does that track the interpersonal relationships or something?

And you misunderstand the Battlebabe's sex move. Their sex move doesn't just mean that the sex move doesn't affect them - it doesn't affect the person with it either.

Isn't the end result exactly the same as if the characters had just not had sex?

 

[Neonchameleon]

I forget what Hx is. Does that track the interpersonal relationships or something?

Yes. And each PC has an Hx (History) stat with each other PC. It's that that changes. Like sex moves, almost none of the AW-derived games use Hx (the only one I can think of that does is the World Wide Wrestling RPG which measures the strength of feuds and has them reset when the feud is resolved).

Isn't the end result exactly the same as if the characters had just not had sex?

Is a loaded gun that doesn't fire when the trigger is pulled the same as an unloaded gun?

Mechanically there's no effect - but no effect when you would expect there to be one. The Brainer automatically deep brain scans everyone they have sex with except the Battlebabe. For the Brainer this is the world not behaving at all as they would expect. They might find it concerning, they might find it extremely restful. Either way it means that the Brainer is going to find sex with a Battlebabe radically different from sex with anyone else.

It's like the clue in Sherlock Holmes' The Adventure of Silver Blaze, better known as the curious incident of the dog in the night time. The dog did nothing in the night time - and that was the curious incident.

 

[Nytmare]

Is a loaded gun that doesn't fire when the trigger is pulled the same as an unloaded gun?

Mechanically there's no effect - but no effect when you would expect there to be one. The Brainer automatically deep brain scans everyone they have sex with except the Battlebabe. For the Brainer this is the world not behaving at all as they would expect. They might find it concerning, they might find it extremely restful. Either way it means that the Brainer is going to find sex with a Battlebabe radically different from sex with anyone else.

Do players not know what the other characters are? Who is entering into this situation expecting their sex move to work?

Am I just imagining this game being played by the entirely wrong subset of people?

 

[Neonchameleon]

Do players not know what the other characters are? Who is entering into this situation expecting their sex move to work?

Am I just imagining this game being played by the entirely wrong subset of people?

The players know what the other characters are mechanically. The characters don't until they've seen them in action.

And which subset are you thinking of? Meguy Baker is a freeform RPer - and Vincent Baker's design goal in almost all the RPGs he's ever published has been to produce something that freeformers will take to and that improves on freeform.