A leveling way to limit access to magic?

[Cor Azer]

I would suggest instead that you word the limit as "your caster level in any class cannot exceed half of your character level (rounded up)".

This deals neatly with the Mystic Theurge loophole mentioned earlier, but it also means that a character who takes his first four levels in Fighter and then multiclasses to Cleric has the option of gaining his next few levels exclusively in Cleric to "catch up". That may, or may not, be desirable.

Oh, and I also probably wouldn't play in such a game. But that's just a matter of taste, rather than because what you're suggesting is inherently badwrongfun.

I think that's a better way to than the "no consecutive levels" plan, unless you don't mind said loophole.

I'm curious though - is the campaign designed to be very little magic in general (and hence high level magic is extremely rare) or are you hoping to have a lot of low-level stuff, but very little high level? The two may require different rules tweaks to achieve.

 

[darthkilmor]

The Dragonlance book has as class ( sorry I cant remember what its called ) thats basically a master crafter kind of class, in that he can craft +x weapons, so if you had soemthing like that then you wouldnt have to equate low magic with no +5 longswords.
But you'd probably not have many +1 flaming shocking frosting etc longswords.

As a thought though, if you wanted a low magic setting, what about just imposing say, a blanket ?25%?30%?whatver%? spell failure chance on everything. Magic is failing, and spells just fizzle sometimes.
Much more exciting too( if you like to roll dice ). Has anyone every done this ?

But yeah, I'd expect to see alot of wizard/clerics and even sorc/wiz's, and anything with spell-like abilities to be much more powerful.

 

[grimwell]

Here's a zany suggestion that could work...

Eliminate the spell casting classes entirely, perhaps allowing players to use the Adept commoner class if you want them to have a simple option. Then, make the spell casting classes into PrC's that fill their void in a smaller span, and thread those into your campaign setting.

A world where true wizards and powerful clerics are unheard of, but not impossible. A world where secret and powerful sects and cabals hoard over the secrets of magic and divine resources, deliberately limiting access to their knowledge and power for the gain it brings them.

It would be a lot of work, but you could come up with a few PrC's that run on the five or ten level range that give players who invest into the campaign world a chance to cast spells that the PrC allows (but not all spells, allowing you to limit what spells are available as others have suggested).

 

[D'karr]

At the higher end of the spectrum how is he going to handle creatures with natural spell casting ability or spell-like effects at the top end of the scale?

Affecting some of these creatures with spell resistance will also become much more difficult, since your effective caster level will never be more than 10.

What about prestige classes that add to your spell caster level?

Will some of the higher level spells be reassigned as lower level spells since most casters won't advance past 6th level spells?

Sorry, lots of questions.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I don't know what kind of monsters and creatures you plan to throw at your PCs in such a campaign, but the low caster level will definitely weaken their ability to overcome Spell Resistance. Spells with level dependend effect will also be unusual ineffective. A 5d6 fireball against a CR 10 opponent isn't particularly impressive.
Spells that grant entirely new abitliies (like Teleport, Fly or Scry) will remain useful once available, though they might also break the game just as much as before (if they did it at all for you, that is) - but since they come a lot later, it should be fine)

My idea would be to change the spell slots and spells known to a progression similar to the bard (instead of 1 new spell level every levels, one new spell level every 3 levels with a max level 6 or maybe 7), but keep caster level intact. You won't need to force characters to multiclass.
To compensate, give the casters a better HD (minimum d6), more skill points and possibly a higher BAB. Also consider adding a few special abilities (the Loremaster special abilities is a good idea for Wizard. Some Warlock Abilities might be nice for a Sorceror).

This means the few spells the casters can cast won't suck, and they don't only rely on their spells to work.

 

[Driddle]

Good feedback. Thanks.

The idea of adding an X% chance of spell failure is a no-go: It adds a level of random uncertainty to the character, effectively a huge penalty. The difference between that and the limited-level progression concept is that in the latter at least the player still knows exactly what he's getting (limited though it may seem). No nasty surprises.

Yes, certain prestige classes would have to be likewise limited or placed out of bounds entirely. I agree. ... And as for the 'mixed' classes, it might be more reasonable to adjust the limits on a per-case basis -- the ranger and paladin are already weak enough in magic effects, so I can't see those classes being cut back to every other level. A bard falls somewhere between, though, so perhaps a 2/3 leveling rule for him?

And the DM would need a fine sense of balance when introducing monsters straight out of the game books. But that's not really a big issue, as long as you're playing with someone who has a fair share of common sense -- i.e. knows his party pretty well, understands that he doesn't have to adhere to published material as-is, and has experience with tweaking elements on the fly.

I disagree that limiting magic like this makes it useless or undesirable. Any supernatural effect is still more powerful and useful in practice than living a totally mundane life ... IF you're creative enough to know how to use it within the proscribed bounds. Having only five healing spells, for example, might not be as cool as ten healing spells, but it's still better than NO healing spells -- and the party should be smart enough to adjust their tactics accordingly. Finally, since the DM has ruled that this effect is worldwide (it will apply to NPCs as well as the PCs), no one suffers a disadvantage by comparison to their opponents.

But that's just my opinion. It's dead-on right, of course, but you're free to disagree anyway.

 

[Quartz]

I started a thread a while back about delayed magic. Basically, I was looking for thoughts on for the first 6 / 8 / 10 levels not having more than half your levels in a spellcasting class. I got some good responses.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Here is another possibility.

No spell using base classes; spell using only exists through prestige classes. Remove any 'must be able to cast x level spells' restrictions and introduce whatever makes sense for a given prestige class.

This would be more dramatic than just limiting the total number of spellcasting classes, of course.

 

[Quartz]

For one thing, it'd make a paladin pretty much impossible. Get to level 4, take your next level as something else, never get back into paladin again.

Isn't that SOP for a low-Wis paladin anyway? Pal 4 / Ftr 2 / Kt or Prestige Class?

 

[Quartz]

Here is another possibility.

No spell using base classes; spell using only exists through prestige classes.

The Divine Crusader prestige class would be almost ideal for this.