A minor rant: the Elf spectrum

[Mad Mac]

I like the elf/eladrin distinction too... but three flavors of elf is too much.

Yup. The Elf changes are nice and all, but do we really need Elves taking up half the race slots in the first PHB? I'd take a lot of races over Half-Elves for a full write up.

 

[Goken100]

I love elves, but prefer the mysterious version. I've always house-ruled that elves get intelligence instead of dex. So I think Eladrin is a nice accomodation for folks like me. The rest of those silly elf types can hang.

Different topic: Half-elves
While half-elven characters are fun, I'm sorta bothered by all this talk of "the half-elven race". Why should a scenario need to decribe the roll that half-elves play in society? I think I'd be more comfortable if we were to describe those that have significant elfish ancestry (pick whatever percent you want, say between 25% and 75%) as "elf-blooded" or something.

But if we're talking about HALF-elves, then there won't be a "race" of them, nor will they have an impact on society as a group. There'll simply be a few individuals sprinkled around leading interesting and challenging lives.

Errr, so in summary: Half-elves aren't that important and are often mis-used, so I'd prefer they not be a race option in the first PH.

 

[drothgery]

I like the elf/eladrin distinction too... but three flavors of elf is too much.

Three is fine, as long as they're reclassifying all other elf variants as one of them for mechanics purposes.

 

[cerberus2112]

Random Idea:

For my next campaign, Half-Elves will be "changlings." Swapped shortly after birth with a human child, half-elves are the descendants of eladrin raised in the mortal world by humans. What happens to the human children swiped by the eladrin remains a mystery . . .

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'll give you that. I'm pretty sure that only people who are really into Tolkien think of Elrond as anything but a background character, though. (Not really into it myself)

Well, tens of millions of people did see the Lord of the Rings movies, so Elrond has more exposure than Tanis ever has, just on that alone. My mom knows who Elrond is, and finds him sort of cute. My mom will know Tanis only as an ancient real world place name.

Half-Elves aren't a playable option in most modern CRPG's, either.

They're available in EverQuest I, EverQuest II and Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, which is a pretty good spread of modern CRPGs. Ones explicitly based on D&D, of course, are also very likely to have them.

I'm just sort of ruminating on the impression I have now that they've become less popular than they used to be, and not just inside of D&D.

I think the mechanical suck associated with them in 3E has really forced everyone to reevaluate what they actually bring to the table.

Like a lot of people, I would rather have orcs and elves at PC races, and the half-breeds in the Monster Manual, either as a template or as a monster/race write-up.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

(Or 3' little green men with magical cookie baking powers)

Magical cookie baking powers kick ass.

Later
silver

 

[Felon]

Why is it that every edition of D&D has been swimming in elves?

It looks like 4E is keeping up the tradition, and while I love most of what I've heard so far I find this disappointing.

So far we're getting eladrin, elves, half-elves, and drow. If drow are significantly different from eladrin, perhaps we will end up with "shadow elves" and "half-shadow elves" as well.

I really don't understand the point. Are the roles played by these variants really so distinct that so many different races are needed?

First off, do you have some source that denotes eladrin as being an elf? From what I've gathered, the eladrin were specifically conceived as not being elves, but rather displacing the elf' as the ephemeral, immaculate, sophisticated, somewhat-anemic masters of magic. The elves will be the earthy tree-lovers wearing animal skins and weaving dirty sticks into their hair. You asked what's the point. That's it. It resolves the elven identity crisis.

Now, some folks might feel tempted to respond that if eladrin wind up being thin and pointy-eared, then they're elves as far you're concerned, but all that response does is point out how meaningless it is to make a distinction whether or not a race is elven, because all it amounts to being thin and pointy-eared. Let halflings be an elven subrace for all its worth.

Drow have always had lots of things that made them distinct from other elves, both physically and in a mechanical sense.

Half-elves I admittedly just don't get. Never have. It seems that in 4e, they willl be the leaders and face-men.

 

[Aldarc]

First off, do you have some source that denotes eladrin as being an elf? From what I've gathered, the eladrin were specifically conceived as not being elves, but rather displacing the elf' as the ephemeral, immaculate, sophisticated, somewhat-anemic masters of magic. The elves will be the earthy tree-lovers wearing animal skins and weaving dirty sticks into their hair. You asked what's the point. That's it. It resolves the elven identity crisis.

Now, some folks might feel tempted to respond that if eladrin wind up being thin and pointy-eared, then they're elves as far you're concerned, but all that response does is point out how meaningless it is to make a distinction whether or not a race is elven, because all it amounts to being thin and pointy-eared. Let halflings be an elven subrace for all its worth.

Drow have always had lots of things that made them distinct from other elves, both physically and in a mechanical sense.

Half-elves I admittedly just don't get. Never have. It seems that in 4e, they willl be the leaders and face-men.

And that distinction is fine and dandy, and that is not what most people have a problem with, but instead it is the inclusion of the eladrin in the 4E PHB1 as one of three elvish-type races out of the potential eight races total. It is a little much and the eladrin should have been held back until PHB2 as a "core" race though still present in the MM.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Personally, I don't have a problem with the number of elves. Lots of people must like them, or else why include them? If lots of people like them, it makes sense to have them around.

Then again, I don't expect to use the core book races AT ALL except in Spelljammer games, where half-elves obviously appear. I don't expect D&D's core books to be 100% useful content, or even 75% useful content.

They're available in EverQuest I, EverQuest II and Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, which is a pretty good spread of modern CRPGs. Ones explicitly based on D&D, of course, are also very likely to have them.

EQ 1 and 2 are basically not relevant at this point; each has a number of subscribers roughly equal to the sales numbers I've seen projected for a D&D 3.5 supplement like a Complete book. Vanguard I can't seem to find numbers on, but certainly I haven't heard it's exactly nipping at WoW's heels. Does Lord of the Rings Online allow for half-elves?

In any case, this leaves out the 800 lbs. gorillas, World of Warcraft (elves but no half-elves) and Final Fantasy (no elves). To say nothing of pretty much the entire second tier comprised of games like the BioWare games (no elves), other major MMORPGs (varies, of course), the Suikodens (elves but no half-elves), the Wild ARMses (renamed elves, no half-elves), the Shadow Heartses (no elves), etc.

It's not a 'spread' at all. It's a small subset of a subgenre.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

EQ 1 and 2 are basically not relevant at this point; each has a number of subscribers roughly equal to the sales numbers I've seen projected for a D&D 3.5 supplement like a Complete book. Vanguard I can't seem to find numbers on, but certainly I haven't heard it's exactly nipping at WoW's heels.

Well, the size wasn't the question. And all of these games -- and remember that EQ1 reached half a million subscribers back in the good old days -- are extremely influential on other CRPGs.

In any case, this leaves out the 800 lbs. gorillas, World of Warcraft (elves but no half-elves)

NPC half-elves, so I'd give the half-elves a half-point for WoW.

Final Fantasy (no elves).

I believe that Lineage II -- huge in Asia -- has half-elves. They certainly have a ton of busty elf-like races, in any case.

other major MMORPGs (varies, of course)

If you discount EQ1, I'm not sure there are any major MMORPGs below the WoW level.