A new name for Late 1E

[T. Foster]

I tend to divide 1E AD&D into 3 eras:

Early AD&D is roughly 1977-80 and consists generally of the Monster Manual, Players Handbook, Dungeon Masters Guide, Deities & Demigods, World of Greyhawk folio, early modules (A1, C1-2, D1-3, G1-3, Q1, S1-3, T1) and accessories (The Rogues Gallery, etc.), and Dragon magazine when it was still The Dragon (up to #38, June 1980).

Mid AD&D is roughly 1981-85 and consists of the reprinted core rulebooks and modules, Fiend Folio, Monster Manual 2, Unearthed Arcana, Oriental Adventures, the World of Greyhawk boxed set, Lankhmar: City of Adventure, the Battlesystem boxed set, a ton more modules (A2-4, C3-5, CA1, CB1-2, DL1-11, EX1-2, H1, I1-7, L1-2, MV1, N1-2, S4, T1-4, U1-3, UK1-7, WG4-6) and Dragon issues 39-104 (in which, it should be noted, much of the material from MM2, UA, and the WoG boxed set originally appeared).

Late AD&D is roughly 1986-88 and consists of cheap reprints of the rulebooks that fell apart if you looked at them wrong, 'supermodule' compilations (A1-4, GDQ1-7, I3-5, I12, S1-4), Dungeoneer's Survival Guide, Wilderness Survival Guide, Manual of the Planes, Dragonlance Adventures, Greyhawk Adventures, the Forgotten Realms gray-box, City System, Kara-Tur: The Eastern Realms, the Dungeon Master's Design Kit, a bunch more modules (C6, CA2, DL12-16, DQ1, FR1-6, FRC1, H2-4, I8-14, N3-5, OA1-5, OP1, REF3-5, RS1, WG7), Dragon issues 105-150 (or whenever the 2E transition occured), and Dungeon #1-20 (or thereabouts).

The first period is (IMO) pretty much pure gold and is generally what I'm thinking of when I refer to "AD&D." The second period is a decidedly mixed bag, with some great stuff (mostly the Gygax Greyhawk stuff) offset by an increasing proportion of dreck (like the Conan modules, or that stupid "magic viewer" module, and of course Oriental Adventures). The third period is (again IMO) almost a total wasteland without a single item that I would consider a true classic, and only a small handful of items I'd even consider worth owning at all.

 

[JamesM]

One of my 3.5 players likes to make jibes -- some good natured, some less so -- at my running and enjoying 1E by specifically pointing to OA, UA, DSG and WSG as the same kind of power/rules creep that I dislike about 3.5 (when you try and include all the crap -- not the core game itself). All of those books are late into 1E's life, IIRC, and besides, I try and remind him that WSG and DSG weren't overpowered -- they were boring as all get out.

I think it's truer to say that late 1E material, including the boring WSG and DSG, represent a new phase in the development of the game, with the introduction and proliferation of non-weapon proficiencies. This marks the beginning of greater player empowerment, with the introduction of standardized rules to adjudicate (in this case) when a character succeeds at a non-combat action, as well as the extent of character knowledge and how that knowledge may be increased. Prior to that, such matters were largely left to DM fiat.

Whether or not you view the change as a good one (I myself think it's a wash overall), there's no question that, by late 1E, if not before, something had shifted in the philosophy of what a RPG was and this impacted D&D in ways we're still seeing today.

 

[Prince of Happiness]

I tend to divide 1E AD&D into 3 eras:

Early AD&D is roughly 1977-80 and consists generally of the Monster Manual, Players Handbook, Dungeon Masters Guide, Deities & Demigods, World of Greyhawk folio, early modules (A1, C1-2, D1-3, G1-3, Q1, S1-3, T1) and accessories (The Rogues Gallery, etc.), and Dragon magazine when it was still The Dragon (up to #38, June 1980).

Mid AD&D is roughly 1981-85 and consists of the reprinted core rulebooks and modules, Fiend Folio, Monster Manual 2, Unearthed Arcana, Oriental Adventures, the World of Greyhawk boxed set, Lankhmar: City of Adventure, the Battlesystem boxed set, a ton more modules (A2-4, C3-5, CA1, CB1-2, DL1-11, EX1-2, H1, I1-7, L1-2, MV1, N1-2, S4, T1-4, U1-3, UK1-7, WG4-6) and Dragon issues 39-104 (in which, it should be noted, much of the material from MM2, UA, and the WoG boxed set originally appeared).

Late AD&D is roughly 1986-88 and consists of cheap reprints of the rulebooks that fell apart if you looked at them wrong, 'supermodule' compilations (A1-4, GDQ1-7, I3-5, I12, S1-4), Dungeoneer's Survival Guide, Wilderness Survival Guide, Manual of the Planes, Dragonlance Adventures, Greyhawk Adventures, the Forgotten Realms gray-box, City System, Kara-Tur: The Eastern Realms, the Dungeon Master's Design Kit, a bunch more modules (C6, CA2, DL12-16, DQ1, FR1-6, FRC1, H2-4, I8-14, N3-5, OA1-5, OP1, REF3-5, RS1, WG7), Dragon issues 105-150 (or whenever the 2E transition occured), and Dungeon #1-20 (or thereabouts).

The first period is (IMO) pretty much pure gold and is generally what I'm thinking of when I refer to "AD&D." The second period is a decidedly mixed bag, with some great stuff (mostly the Gygax Greyhawk stuff) offset by an increasing proportion of dreck (like the Conan modules, or that stupid "magic viewer" module, and of course Oriental Adventures). The third period is (again IMO) almost a total wasteland without a single item that I would consider a true classic, and only a small handful of items I'd even consider worth owning at all.

Good breakdown! Wasn't OA released in '85? Any rate, I do agree with your assessment regarding OA as well. Having dull-as-dirt, repeated-in-the-same-book art did *not* help at all. Kara-Tur... was marginal as well.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Early AD&D is roughly 1977-80...
Mid AD&D is roughly 1981-85...
Late AD&D is roughly 1986-88...

In my mind, I generally lump the "mid" and "late" periods together, but I could get on board with this breakdown.

The first period is...pure gold and is generally what I'm thinking of when I refer to "AD&D." The second period is a decidedly mixed bag...The third period is...almost a total wasteland...

I agree with all that, too.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Bunch of old people still arguing over whether or not Truman was a good President...

Mistwell, this looks like threadcrapping. If it isn't a subject you are interested in, just pass by the thread, OK?

Thanks

 

[Plane Sailing]

I tend to divide 1E AD&D into 3 eras:

Early AD&D is roughly 1977-80

Mid AD&D is roughly 1981-85

Late AD&D is roughly 1986-88

Great breakdown, very useful.

I was pretty much only playing Early AD&D, I did get some of the Mid AD&D modules (much of the I series and UK series were pure gold, still some of my favourite modules ever) but didn't get to run them because we'd moved on to other things.

Cheers

 

[T. Foster]

Good breakdown! Wasn't OA released in '85? Any rate, I do agree with your assessment regarding OA as well. Having dull-as-dirt, repeated-in-the-same-book art did *not* help at all. Kara-Tur... was marginal as well.

OA was released in late '85 and thus falls within my mid-AD&D category, though both style and content-wise it has much more in common with the late-AD&D material. Something I forgot to include in my list above is the novels, which follow more or less the same pattern of quality as the rulebooks and modules:

Early AD&D: TSR didn't produce any novels in this era, but The Dragon included both new and reprinted s&s short fiction from the likes of Fritz Leiber, de Camp & Pratt, Gardner F. Fox, and others

Mid AD&D: Endless Quest series; Dragonlance Chronicles trilogy; Saga of Old City, Artifact of Evil (actually published in Feb. '86 but I'm categorizing it here for presumably obvious reasons)

Late AD&D: Dragonlance Legends, Tales, and Heroes trilogies; Rose Estes Greyhawk novels (Master Wolf, etc.); early Forgotten Realms novels - Darkwalker on Moonshae, The Crystal Shard, Spellfire, Azure Bonds

 

[Geoffrey]

I tend to divide 1E AD&D into 3 eras:

Early AD&D is roughly 1977-80 and consists generally of the Monster Manual, Players Handbook, Dungeon Masters Guide, Deities & Demigods, World of Greyhawk folio, early modules (A1, C1-2, D1-3, G1-3, Q1, S1-3, T1) and accessories (The Rogues Gallery, etc.), and Dragon magazine when it was still The Dragon (up to #38, June 1980).

Mid AD&D is roughly 1981-85 and consists of the reprinted core rulebooks and modules, Fiend Folio, Monster Manual 2, Unearthed Arcana, Oriental Adventures, the World of Greyhawk boxed set, Lankhmar: City of Adventure, the Battlesystem boxed set, a ton more modules (A2-4, C3-5, CA1, CB1-2, DL1-11, EX1-2, H1, I1-7, L1-2, MV1, N1-2, S4, T1-4, U1-3, UK1-7, WG4-6) and Dragon issues 39-104 (in which, it should be noted, much of the material from MM2, UA, and the WoG boxed set originally appeared).

Late AD&D is roughly 1986-88 and consists of cheap reprints of the rulebooks that fell apart if you looked at them wrong, 'supermodule' compilations (A1-4, GDQ1-7, I3-5, I12, S1-4), Dungeoneer's Survival Guide, Wilderness Survival Guide, Manual of the Planes, Dragonlance Adventures, Greyhawk Adventures, the Forgotten Realms gray-box, City System, Kara-Tur: The Eastern Realms, the Dungeon Master's Design Kit, a bunch more modules (C6, CA2, DL12-16, DQ1, FR1-6, FRC1, H2-4, I8-14, N3-5, OA1-5, OP1, REF3-5, RS1, WG7), Dragon issues 105-150 (or whenever the 2E transition occured), and Dungeon #1-20 (or thereabouts).

The first period is (IMO) pretty much pure gold and is generally what I'm thinking of when I refer to "AD&D." The second period is a decidedly mixed bag, with some great stuff (mostly the Gygax Greyhawk stuff) offset by an increasing proportion of dreck (like the Conan modules, or that stupid "magic viewer" module, and of course Oriental Adventures). The third period is (again IMO) almost a total wasteland without a single item that I would consider a true classic, and only a small handful of items I'd even consider worth owning at all.

I agree 99%. My only change is that I include the Fiend Folio in Early AD&D. Though it wasn't published until 1981, it was essentially finished in 1979 (as per the Fiend Folio's FOREWORD, plus the fact that the 1980 DDG refers to the Fiend Folio), and many of its monsters first appeared in White Dwarf magazines from the 1970s. Plus, IMO the Fiend Folio has that early feel.

 

[Aaron2]

My only change is that I include the Fiend Folio in Early AD&D. Though it wasn't published until 1981, it was essentially finished in 1979 (as per the Fiend Folio's FOREWORD, plus the fact that the 1980 DDG refers to the Fiend Folio), and many of its monsters first appeared in White Dwarf magazines from the 1970s. Plus, IMO the Fiend Folio has that early feel.

I would agree. Luckily, TSR put an ugly orange spine on all the books that were crap. It makes it easy to sort the good from the bad on your shelf.

 

[T. Foster]

I would agree. Luckily, TSR put an ugly orange spine on all the books that were crap. It makes it easy to sort the good from the bad on your shelf.

Fun geek trivia: the "githyanki attack" picture by Jeff Easley that was eventually used as the cover of module OP1 was originally commisioned by TSR for a planned orange-spine release of Fiend Folio that, for whatever reason, never happened.