D&D 5E A Proper Ability Score Generation Preference Poll

[Hussar]

The shift in bonuses doesn't make that much of difference, earlier editions had lower overall numbers. HD max's were lower 9-11 HD, while now a days 20 is the usual max for HD. 20 dice of falling damage threatened most character with heavy damage or close to deadly damage, while now 20 dice is just hp tax. etc..

You believe an all 14 stat character is a good while I believe its barely fair and will require several ASI to only become a good character.

As I've always said this is my opinion only.

People always talk about the character maximums in AD&D but rarely talk about the other side of the screen. We're talking an edition where the largest monsters in the game have less than 100 HP. Ancient Huge Red dragon taps out at 96 HP in AD&D. And that's about as big as it gets (outside of unique individuals). This is an edition where you could meat Ancient Black Dragons at 5th level and expect to win that fight quite handily.

People tend to forget just how much nastier later edition monsters and challenges have become.

 

[Wulffolk]

A good DM creates a game that's fun (hopefully), whether that is having an adventure preplanned for session 0 or having setting info for the group to set up detailed backgrounds and bonds with the rest of the group, all that matters is that the group has fun. That is to say that I don't think your way is wrong, but I also don't think that it is right.

That is true. There are groups that prefer simplicity, and groups that prefer action, and groups that prefer deep stories, etc. It boils down to the DM reading the room and being prepared for the expectations of the group.

After playing D&D for over a decade I discovered the World of Darkness games by White Wolf right at the beginning of their run. This heavily influenced me and those I have spent the most time role-playing with towards a significantly more story-driven and role-playing oriented game than what was our typical forays into the early editions of D&D high action adventures. I used to have fun playing those generic dungeon crawls, but these days I would be highly annoyed at a DM forcing my newly created character into an "adventure" just to get us started. That is why I hate "Adventure Paths". They take the freedom of choice from the player.

 

[redrick]

I agree that weaknesses can be a good character defining hook. What I disagree with is the near requirement that characters have that low stat.

And Gary's maxim was 'at least' 2 15s.

I've seen plenty of point buy characters that get rid of the 8. 10, 10, 10, 13, 14, 15. 10, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15. That's two arrays, both of which keep your power stats at full. So, with a 27-point buy, the 8 isn't a requirement. It's just in the standard array because the standard array is a suggested distribution that hits all the bases.

Of course, there's nothing stopping you from raising the point buy budget, which effectively banishes negative ability scores to the realm of polio, unless we also expand the cap above 15. (A 33 point buy, as suggested somewhere to allow 10, 10, 10, 15, 15, 15 is going to produce even more homogenous results than the 27 if we keep that cap on scores of 15.) And, again, while the game works fine to do this, I'll make the case for a starting cap of 15, which is that it makes the ASI process work much better, in my experience.

Every time you get an ASI, you get to choose between a feat or that ability score bonus. This is a reasonable trade-off and some players will choose one and some will choose the other. Some players don't really want the feats — they just want to get better at smashing and dodging. However, once you have your primary ability scores maxed out, the bonuses to secondary and tertiary scores have diminishing rewards. It's not a game breaker, but it does cause characters to load up on more feats. Personally, I like the diversity that develops between characters who choose to invest heavily in feats, but keep their ability scores close to their initial level, vs characters who forgo feats to become SUPER STRONG or SUPER SMART.

But, as you say, that's just my opinion. It's not like the game totally falls apart if you lose that. Ultimately, what we do with the characters is what matters, not an extra 5% or 10% increase in success rate.

 

[BookBarbarian]

The biggest problem I have with the standard array (and 27 point buy in most cases) is if you tell me your race and class I will know what all your stats are.

Will you? Let's try it!

Variant Human Fighter. Using point buy. So what are my stats?

 

[Salamandyr]

At this point I'm inclined to just let players have the stats they want...with the understanding that they can't take a stat they couldnt' but buy in point buy. Does this mean that a player could start with a human character with all 16's? Sure...and that's not a bad thing.

Try it...you'll find it doesn't unbalance anything, and it actually fixes a lot of structural problems within the game.

AND it makes for happy players.

 

[kagayaku]

My favored method is, by far, Redrick Roller, with the stats re-ordered as you wish

http://aramis.hostman.us/dnd/RedrickRoller.html

The main properties of this is that it's a 27 point roll, with no score above 15, so it's "balanced". However, there is some randomness because the scores aren't exactly as you wished. So it combines the benefits of both methods, and it can be inspiring for character creation, and avoid "dump stats".

For example, I just rolled 10 13 11 11 15 13

Looking at this, I see a *lot* of odd scores, and a lot of +1 and +0 stats. If I took a standard human, the rolls become 11 14 12 12 16 14, which would be a great stat set for a MAD character - this would make a great paladin or monk for example

Re-rolling I got 10 14 9 12 15 12
Now this array would probably benefit more from another race (ie a +2 and a +1), and would make a solid foundation for a dwarven cleric or fighter, for example.

etc etc

This is brilliant! So far I've only played rolled stats games and the one and only game I've DMed (our current game) was rolled too. I always disliked rolled stats as a player though and I like it even less as DM, it's just very clear some players got a bum deal out of it. I was thinking for a future game I'd come up with twelve/twenty point-buy arrays with the players and then people could roll a d12/d20 to see what they get. Maybe even roll 2 dice so there's some choice. But I might go with this instead.

This is pretty cool.

If there was a way to modify it, so that it is possible to generate a 16 score for 14 points, I would use this every time.

It would be cool if the tool was a little more flexible. I'm happy with a lack of 16s but I'd like to be able to generate it with more or fewer points. I may do a future game with a +2 to stats every 2 levels instead of 4 but with a lower starting amount so the characters really get stronger over time.

At this point I'm inclined to just let players have the stats they want...with the understanding that they can't take a stat they couldnt' but buy in point buy. Does this mean that a player could start with a human character with all 16's? Sure...and that's not a bad thing.

Try it...you'll find it doesn't unbalance anything, and it actually fixes a lot of structural problems within the game.

AND it makes for happy players.

I don't think I'd be brave enough to commit this to a campaign, but I'd love to try it in a one shot for a test drive. I think I can guess which players would have all 16s and which would have all bum stats xD

 

[Hussar]

The biggest problem I have with the standard array (and 27 point buy in most cases) is if you tell me your race and class I will know what all your stats are. Its not just me either, any competent player will immediately will be able to guess with a high degree of accuracy. It gets boring.

I've seen this claim before.

8th level standard human ranger, standard array, no ASI's (took Sharpshooter and Alert feats). So, what are my stats? Should be easy since I've got standard array+1.

 

[Yaarel]

Interestingly, Xanathars Guide recommends letting players choose between the Standard Array and the Variant Point Buy.

It seems rolling dice has fallen out of favor, apparently because it is too disruptive.

 

[redrick]

My favored method is, by far, Redrick Roller, with the stats re-ordered as you wish

http://aramis.hostman.us/dnd/RedrickRoller.html

The main properties of this is that it's a 27 point roll, with no score above 15, so it's "balanced". However, there is some randomness because the scores aren't exactly as you wished. So it combines the benefits of both methods, and it can be inspiring for character creation, and avoid "dump stats".

Ooh, so happy that this method is still getting love! I used this approach to create my all-time favorite 5e character — a halfling fighter with equal Dex and Str, and a low Intelligence and a reasonable charisma. I came in with no character concept whatsoever, and after rolling abilities this way, plus rolling for character race, I came up with a cheery but gullible halfling marsh dweller who could identify every kind of fish in his area, but couldn't really distinguish truth from fantasy. He operated mostly as a Dex fighter, but he used his reasonable strength scores to try to climb on any Large or greater monster. He also had an unshakable belief in the Fantasy Dream — if you work hard enough doing quests for the duly appointed nobility, you too will get a castle and a kingdom of your own.

Sorry for that "Let me tell you about my character" moment, but boy do I miss that guy.

 

[redrick]

At this point I'm inclined to just let players have the stats they want...with the understanding that they can't take a stat they couldnt' but buy in point buy. Does this mean that a player could start with a human character with all 16's? Sure...and that's not a bad thing.

Try it...you'll find it doesn't unbalance anything, and it actually fixes a lot of structural problems within the game.

AND it makes for happy players.

I think if it's a seasoned group, there should be a lot of merit to this. At the end of the day, a disruptive player can be disruptive with any character, no matter how balanced or munchkined their character. This way, if I want to play the sidekick always getting in over their head, I can do that. If I want to play the unstoppable hero, the best in the world, I can do that. It would work with a group that, ultimately, thinks in terms of working together to have fun at the table, and not just one-upping each other in terms of kill counts and getting away with an uneven share of the treasure.