A quick question about critters with monk levels...

[Storyteller01]

This is an off-shoot of the Thri-kreen monk thread...


To anyone in the know; If a monk's fists are considered monk weapons as well as natural weapons, why are other creatures natural weapons (Example: a lizardmans claws) not considered monk weapons?

Is there a rule that states this, or is it assumed to be that way?

 

[Zandel]

Are we talking in fists = slam natural attacks here or critters with no natural attacks?

 

[Storyteller01]

critters with natural attacks: claws, bites, tail slaps, slams, etc. Anything with a built in natural weapon.

I'm asking by the rules stand point. If it doesn't have a natural attack listed, I'm not worrying about it.

 

[Zandel]

I haven't seen any rules about natural weapons not being considered monk weapons in fact i seem to remember there being something about the monk being able to use any part of there body for there IUS attacks. This suggests that natural weapons count as special monk weapons and even if they aren't i'd rule that they are.

 

[Storyteller01]

Cool. Thanks for the response. I would to, but I wanted to know if it would have been a house rule before stating that to my group. There funny that way...

 

[Zandel]

Maybe it was just fluff text or 3.0 but i'm sure it says somewhere that a monk's (or maybe all) IUS can be made with any body part.......might have been sword and fist too.......not sure now but i know it's out there.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

By the RAW natural weapons them selves are done seperately from monk attacks.
So a level 1 monk lizard folk would do unarmed/bite/claw/claw as his attack routine.

Now logically this makes some sense, I suppose the unarmed part could be with a claw or bite but it's not specified so it could just as easily be a kick, punch, head butt or tail slap.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

So far as I can tell, natural weapons /= monk weapons. They don't appear in the list of monk weapons, and they are different from the monk's unarmed strike. They use a different attack progression and do different damage, and may have special effects (eg. energy drain) attached. A creature with a claw attack that does 1d4 damage + poison and one monk level could make a claw attack for 1d4 damage + poison, or an unarmed strike attack for 1d6. The unarmed strike could be with a hand, foot, head, butt, or whatever you like, but it's not a "claw attack" so long as it determines its attack bonus using BAB and does monk unarmed strike damage.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Unarmed strike and natural weapons are separate concepts.

For example, a Wight Monk-9 can make a slam attack (which looks like punching someone with his fist) and Energy Drain; or he can make an unarmed strike (which looks like punching someone with his fist) and deliver a Stunning Fist.

He can't use Stunning Fist with his slam, and he can't Energy Drain with his unarmed strike.

His unarmed strike bypasses DR X/Magic (thanks to Ki Strike), but his slam attack doesn't.

His unarmed strike gets iterative attacks for high BAB, but his slam attack doesn't. In fact, he can make iterative attacks with his unarmed strike, and use his slam attack as a secondary natural attack.

-Hyp.

 

[glass]

A natural weapon is a specific body part designed to do damage. Only certain creatures have them.

An unarmed strike is an attempt by any creature to cause damage without using a specific weapon (manufactured or natural), using any or all body parts. All creatures can attempt unarmed strikes.

At least, that's my take.


glass.