A rogue, a bard, a monk, and a ranger walk into a bar...

[Timely Drought]

What am I supposed to do with this group? No front-line fighters, no full spellcasters. Ranger's favored enemy is aberration. Rogue is skill monkey, bard is diplomancer, ranger is archer, monk is dex monkey. Start at first level.

I have no idea how to challenge these guys without slaughtering them. CRs are going to be out of whack, they're essentially worthless. These guys are weak in both combat and magic.

I was thinking city adventures with occasional dungeon-delving under the city. And some conspiracy involving mind flayers, alienists, and the Far Realm. They can't fight monsters their CR, and having them face humanoid NPCs their CR means they get insane loot from their magic items.

Core only campaign. PHB, DMG, MM. No psionics. Custom campaign-specific (prestige classes etc.) content by DM only. Leadership feat banned.

 

[Crothian]

Don't treat them any different. Don't over welm and slaughter then either though. Set up easy encounters and see how they do. They have strength but only if they see that and know how to use their characters.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I was thinking city adventures with occasional dungeon-delving under the city. And some conspiracy involving mind flayers, alienists, and the Far Realm. They can't fight monsters their CR, and having them face humanoid NPCs their CR means they get insane loot from their magic items.

Soiunds good to me. Conspiracy and mystery is always a good choice for skill-heavy groups.

Why do you figure they'll get insane loot? NPCs have a lot fewer magic items than PCs of their level, and you don't actually have to give all the NPCs their full "official" value of magic. In fact, with a fighter-light/magic-light group, I'd suggest under-equipping the enemy.

Ultimately, however, this is a self-correcting problem. If the group simply doesn't have the right mix of abilities to survive, one (or more) of the PCs will eventually die. If this happens, presumably the player will create a new character a bit more in line with the group's needs.

 

[Timely Drought]

Hmm, don't NPC follow standard PC wealth guidelines? Is there a table I missed?

 

[Junkmaster357]

Underdog

Well, if you're worried about the amount of damage that monsters can do, simply use ones that carry weapons. Rank and file orcs out of the MM carry greataxes. Perhaps they're not very well equipped, and only have short swords, or daggers. I'd rather take a d6 over a d12 any day.

Maybe an NPC comes along to help out, or perhaps a DMC Fighter or Barbarian. In my games I like to run a big dumb brute of a meat shield to allow the PCs to play a character with a tad more depth than "hack hack hack slash!" If you take this option though, beware, because PCs will sniff out any loot even remotely set up for your character, despite the fact that for some odd reason the dragon had +3 Mithril Full Plate made to fit the Centaur Fighter.

One more suggestion is to run encounters between sessions. Just take up their character sheets and run the encounters before the session. Keep track of everything on scratch paper and if the PCs die horribly, maybe it was too soon to send in the Elder Red Great Wyrm. Converesly, if the front liners (or what passes for such in this line up) hardly need a cure minor wounds when everything is said and done, perhaps some more orcs would help. I like to leave some gray area, because dice are fickle things the love to taunt gamers.

Oh, and believe me, despite one goblin being a d20 away from death, 15 can pull some nasty stunts.

 

[Remathilis]

Yup. NPC gear by level. Its after the Quick NPC charts in the DMG.

My suggestions...

You have a dex-heavy, armor-light party. When giving out loot, focus on bracers, rings, mithril shirts, and so on. No heavy armor, and enough of each of the above that people aren't fighting over them.

Give them a wand of Cure Light Wounds. The bard and (I think) the ranger can use it. The rogue might too, if he has Use Magic Device. throw one at them about every other level or so, depending on how often they are beaten down. Upgrade the wands too, go to Cure Mod, and Cure Ser eventually too.

Avoid undead on the whole. The bard can't charm them, the rogue can't SA, the monk can't stun, and (unless the ranger chooses FE) he's no better a fighter. So use them sparingly, and go 1-2 CR lower. Same go for constructs.

Get Lords of Madness for lots of Aberrations-based goodness. The far-realm is a nice thing too for higher/epic levels.

Focus on humanoids, esp monstrous ones. This party can probably take on kobolds, orcs, and goblins with no problem.

Reflex Saves are a joke to this party. Avoid fireball and its ilk unless you want some easy avoidance. 3/4th of this team will get evasion at some point. Fort (monk, ranger) and will (monk and bard) are better bets for spells.

Consider an NPC ally. My suggestion would be a healer (either the class, or something that can like a cleric or better: druid). You essentially gain a 5 party team, which will put CRs back into favor. A cleric will be a medicine chest on legs, but a good selection of domains could even make him a descent frontliner or spellslinger. A druid could do both: wildshape for combat, heal, buff and occasional attack spell.

Those are my suggestions: your idea for the mind-flayer far-realm idea has lots of merit too. You won't get much mileage out of modules, but the rest should be easy. Play to THIER strengths and you'll have a successful game no matter what.

 

[Chimera]

What am I supposed to do with this group? No front-line fighters, no full spellcasters. Ranger's favored enemy is aberration. Rogue is skill monkey, bard is diplomancer, ranger is archer, monk is dex monkey. Start at first level.

Less Combat, More Problem-Solving. Give experience for Role-Play and solving problems and situations.


Poor choice of Favored Enemy, especially for a first level character. Consider letting him change it now. S/he can always take Aberrations later. Also consider talking to the character about NOT being an Archer, as this choice really hurts the small party when it comes to combat. Someone has to engage the enemy and keep them away from him and the Bard, yet he has the best BAB and probably the best Hitpoints. With this character staying in the back, this leaves the Monk and Rogue trying to tie up the enemy.

(In one of my games, I had intended for my Fighter/Rogue to be an Archer type, but party choices - three other characters with bows - forced me to become a two-weapon front-line fighter. It happens. You adjust.)

Another option, as noted by someone else, is an NPC Fighter ally. The problem is that, without much group healing, this NPC will be killed rapidly. Especially as the players won't have much invested in keeping him alive until they're without him and hurting.

The evil DM option is to pull no punches and kill PCs, depending on the players to make better choices with their next characters.

 

[babomb]

Hmm, don't NPC follow standard PC wealth guidelines? Is there a table I missed?

Yes, table 4-23: NPC Gear Value (p. 127 in 3.5 DMG). See also Table 3-3: (Average) Treasure Values per Encounter (p. 51 in 3.5 DMG).

 

[maddman75]

This group looks pretty cool to me. I don't use the CR system anyway, it isn't accurate and tends toward a 'kill monsters for XP' mentality. This group overall can *sneak*. They aren't a group of monter killers and tomb robbers, they're a group of spies and commandos. They won't be charging an army of orcs any time soon. But they might sneak into the camp and steal their plans, assassinate their leader, or find a rival tribe to set against them.

This is what they want to play. Go with it!

 

[MacMathan]

Just have the Ranger take Handle Animal and the party pick up 2 or 3 guard dogs. They go along way for the first couple of levels as far as melee power goes. A hunting/archer type Ranger should love to have his pack of hounds.