A simple fix to balance fighters vs. casters ?

[Arrowhawk]

A question I have for the DM's regarding Wizard/Sorc power at high levels. I am not seeing anything in d20 SRD that says Wizards get to choose which new spells they get..or what spells are available. Quoting SRD

At each new wizard level, she gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that she can cast (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook. At any time, a wizard can also add spells found in other wizards’ spellbooks to her own.

I've read Jkaron's Tier system and in all the examples, he acts as if Wizards always have access to any spell they want and any material components. Do most DM's just allow Wizards to go buy Dimensional Anchor and Contact Other Plane willy nilly? Clearly if you let a Wizard/Sorc have access to any spell they want, I can see how it gets out of control...but isn't Spell availability meant to be the exact way a DM control's the power of an arcane spell caster?

 

[Dandu]

Spells Gained at a New Level

Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, she gains two spells of her choice to add to her spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels she can cast. If she has chosen to specialize in a school of magic, one of the two free spells must be from her specialty school.

 

[Arrowhawk]

Spells Gained at a New Level

Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, she gains two spells of her choice to add to her spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels she can cast. If she has chosen to specialize in a school of magic, one of the two free spells must be from her specialty school.

That still leaves plenty of room to say "her choice" is limited to spells that are available to her...which the DM controls. There is nothing in the RAW that says she gets to actually choose from the list of spells in the all the books there are containing spells. Yes, you could read it that the wizard gets to choose from every spell in existence....and this would include spells in Maztica for which she has never heard of, seen cast, or knew existed. How much sense would that make?

It seems this is the crux of the problem for Wizards/Sorcs. Interpreting "her choice" as still being limited to whats available seems to be the simpliest solution to prevent spells like Scrying and Greater Teleportation from ruining the campaign.

Likewise with Divine casters, since the higher level spells are granted by a Deity, there's no reason why the DM can't say...your DM does not grant you that spell at this time. Anybody here claim to know how God works? Well, Deity's have their own motivations and they are beyond the comprehension of mere mortals. Problem solved.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

That still leaves plenty of room to say "her choice" is limited to spells that are available to her...which the DM controls.

Yes, you can houserule things.

 

[Arrowhawk]

Yes, you can houserule things.

Where does the RAW say the Wizard chooses from any spell published by WotC?

Here's what I found...

PHB p 57

​

At each new wizard level, she gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that
​

she can cast (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook.​

I don't see anything that says the choice is based on every source book available. Let's look back at what Dandu quoted...

PHB p. 179

​

Each time a character attains a new wizard level, she gains two spells of her choice to add to her spellbook. These spells represent the results of her research.
​

Dandu leaves out the most pertinant part of the text "These spells represent the resuls of her research." Just as a DM can say there is no information available on any number of things players may want to research, the DM has the right to determine the accessibility of any researchable knowlege for any given spell.

How is it a house ruling to say X town doesn't have a Wizard's Guild or the Guild is not accepting new members or nobody seems to know the spell you are trying to research or you simply aren't given access to these spells. Just as the book says not all campaigns have access to all magic items...the same is true for spells.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I am still not seenig any RAW that requires a DM to let a Wizard access any spell in any book published by WotC. In the absense of such a requirement, I fail to see how denying access to certain spells would be a house rule. Ergo, the power of Wizards to change the fabric of the game is entirely dependent on the availability of such reality altering spells....something entirely under the control of the DM per the RAW.

 

[Dandu]

What piece of work is a man, how noble in reason,
how infinite in faculties, in form and moving,
how express and admirable in action, how like an angel in apprehension,
how like a god!

 

[kitcik]

Where does the RAW say the Wizard chooses from any spell published by WotC?

Here's what I found...

PHB p 57

At each new wizard level, she gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that
​

she can cast (based on her new wizard level) for her spellbook.
​

I don't see anything that says the choice is based on every source book available. Let's look back at what Dandu quoted...

PHB p. 179

Each time a character attains a new wizard level, she gains two spells of her choice to add to her spellbook. These spells represent the results of her research.
​

Under RAW, every sourcebook is created equally. There is no preference to core over WOTC splats. Therefore, "choice" under RAW implies a choice from everything available, unless RAW says otherwise (like a spell that says "this spell's only available to halfllings who were born in the ding dong region" or whatever).

Dandu leaves out the most pertinant part of the text "These spells represent the resuls of her research." Just as a DM can say there is no information available on any number of things players may want to research, the DM has the right to determine the accessibility of any researchable knowlege for any given spell.

Absolutely, that is a house rule.

How is it a house ruling to say X town doesn't have a Wizard's Guild or the Guild is not accepting new members or nobody seems to know the spell you are trying to research or you simply aren't given access to these spells. Just as the book says not all campaigns have access to all magic items...the same is true for spells.

RAW does not specify the type of research that must be done. Maybe the wiz can figure out the spells on their own as they experiment? In any case, the bottom line is that restrictions based on a non-RAW campaign setting are, by definition, house rules.

For some reason, you seem to take offense at "house rules." I am not sure why. House rules are the backbone of D&D and no campaign can be run without them.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I am still not seenig any RAW that requires a DM to let a Wizard access any spell in any book published by WotC. In the absense of such a requirement, I fail to see how denying access to certain spells would be a house rule.

See above.

Ergo, the power of Wizards to change the fabric of the game is entirely dependent on the availability of such reality altering spells....something entirely under the control of the DM per the RAW.

Well, yes, RAW does state that the DM can make any ruling. I guess under this interpretation, ANY house rule is actually RAW. However, that kind of kills the basis for discussion.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

In addition to kitcik's comments, if a book's available, it's available. If you're playing with the PHB and Spell Compendium, then those books are available, and the spells listed within them are available. If the DM wants to specifically limit certain spells, then he needs to make a house rule about the availability of those certain spells.

The spells a wizard gets for leveling being the result of their research is no different than the feats a fighter gets for leveling being the result of his practice. Sure, you can limit the availability of certain feats, too, but that is also a house rule.

"House Rule" isn't a dirty word.

 

[Arrowhawk]

Under RAW, every sourcebook is created equally. There is no preference to core over WOTC splats. Therefore, "choice" under RAW implies a choice from everything available

You'll need to show me that in Raw. I did find this on page 6 of the DMG:

​

Choose the rule that you like the best, then stick with it for the
​

rest of the campaign. Consistency is a critical aspect of rules​

adjudication.

​

That suggests that choosing the "rule" the DM like best allows the DM to disallow splat books or even spells as the DM sees fit. Splat books are "supplemental" to core books.

Absolutely, that is a house rule.

A "house rule" is a deviation from the official rules. Making decisions about what is available in your campaign is required by the official rules. It is not a deviation from the rules. There is no official rule that says everything that exists in any book is always available to any player. In fact the rules state and encourage the opposite to achieve balance.

There is a categorical difference between saying a spell doesn't exist versus deciding the player doesn't have access to a certain spell due to the campaign setting.

RAW does not specify the type of research that must be done.

yeah, I don't think RAW needs to spell out that if you're researching rubber duckies, you're not going to invent an airplane. Or that you can't research an airplane if no one in your campaign knows what it is or has ever seen one in action.

RAW does not specify the type of research that must be done. Maybe the wiz can figure out the spells on their own as they experiment?

Except that the PHB specifically says the Wizard's dable in "minor magic." I don't think Greater Teleportation constitutes "minor magic"

In any case, the bottom line is that restrictions based on a non-RAW campaign setting are, by definition, house rules.

What exactly is a Non-Raw campaign setting? Here's what DMG says on Page 6

​

Every Dungeon Master is the creator of his or her own campaign
​

world. Whether you use the G

​

REYHAWK® setting (the standard

D&D campaign setting) or another published setting for the D&D
game, such as the ​

​

FORGOTTEN REALMS® Campaign Setting, it’s still

your world.
The setting is more than just a backdrop for adventures, although
it’s that too. The setting is everything in the fictional world​

except for the PCs and the adventure plot

​

Emphasis added.

Even if you interpret that to mean you have to use a published campaign setting, none of the ones I've read tell you what spells are and are not available.

I did find this little tidbit in the PHB p 179.

With the DM’s permission, sorcerers and bards can also select the spells theygain from new and unusual spells that they have gained some understanding of (see Spells in the sorcerer description, page 54).​

​

Emphasis Added.

Even if we concede the Sorc/Bard gets any spell in the PHB, this rule explicitly seems to give the DM discretion over any other source for spells.

For some reason, you seem to take offense at "house rules."

Offense? No. But the label is incorrect and seems to be thrown around to undermine the fact that the balance issue ...really isn't there in terms of how the game is supposed to be run. If people say there is a way to deal with X problem and the response is "oh that's house ruling," that's tantamount to saying, no, you haven't solved the problem.


It is a core principal in D&D that the DM's take actions to balance the game. If DM's shirk that responsibility, it is invalid to say things are unbalanced while ignoring the most crucial instrument designed to enforce balance.

 

[Arrowhawk]

In addition to kitcik's comments, if a book's available, it's available.

And is there somwhere in the RAW that says you have to play with the Spell Compendium?

The spells a wizard gets for leveling being the result of their research

As stated, consider the DM creates the entire fictional world, I see no deviation from RAW to tell a player, "you are not able to find any information on how to cast X spell."

i

is no different than the feats a fighter gets for leveling being the result of his practice.

Speaking of which, what do the rule say about leveling up? Does it happen instantenously along the learning of new feats or do characters have to train? I've found conflicting information on the topic.

Sure, you can limit the availability of certain feats, too, but that is also a house rule.

Except were' not eliminating the feat and the rules don't expicitly say that a fighter has to do "research" to learn a feat. And I seriously disagree that it would be houseruling to say a character who lives in the desert and who has never seen a body of water larger than a mudhole isn't going to be able to take ranks in Swim or take the Swim feat.

Essentially you're mixing apples and oranges. Research and training are completely different. Researching requries that information exists. Training implies you already know how to do the activity, you're just not good at it.

"House Rule" isn't a dirty word.

Never said it was, just that you're using it inaccruately. You have to show a explicit rule that is being deviated from for it to be a house rule. Deciding on the availability of certain items or things based on campaign setting is not a deviation of the rules and is in fact, encouraged by them.