D&D 5E A simple questions for Power Gamers, Optimizers, and Min-Maxers.

[Caliban]

Thank you for your response. This is the response I expected from most power gamers; however, if you read through this thread you will see that it is not the majority of the responses I have received. I think you may need to rethink your assumptions about power gamers - I know I have!

This is why I draw a distinction between optimizers and power gamers. Optimizers try to pick the best (or most interesting) options from those available, power gamers tend to go for game breaking combo's and strategies.

 

[dave2008]

This is why I draw a distinction between optimizers and power gamers. Optimizers try to pick the best (or most interesting) options from those available, power gamers tend to go for game breaking combo's and strategies.

Again, that seems to be your definition and not one shared by other self-professed power gamers in this thread (one even says he dislikes optimizers).

 

[Caliban]

Again, that seems to be your definition and not one shared by other self-professed power gamers in this thread (one even says he dislikes optimizers).

That might be why I said "that is why I draw a distinction". But thanks for pointing it out again for me.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

A powergamer does not want someone else to do what he does as well as he does it. It would be unsatisfying to both powergamer 1 and powergamer 2 if they were doing the exact same damage, even if one was doing it with magic and the other with a sword. They would feel like they weren't unique. Most powergamers want to feel powerful and unique. It's a huge reason they do what they do. It's not enough to just be powerful, it has to be uniquely powerful. If everyone around the table made exactly the same optimized character (same class, same abilities, same customization options), the other powergamers would choose different options just to be unique, yet seek to optimize those options to the best of their ability.

I find this characterization highly questionable. I think the word you're looking for here is "munchkin", not "powergamer."

 

[dave2008]

That might be why I said "that is why I draw a distinction". But thanks for pointing it out again for me.

Good point!

 

[Captain Panda]

So back to the real question of the thread. Would you want to play in a system were optimizing had little to no difference on the effectiveness of the character?

I suppose my point was that I don't think such a system is possible. If every build is the same, there is no optimizing things. Also, sounds pretty boring. You'd have to remove anything too abnormal or distinct in the interest of balance. Polymorph? Nope, not balanced. Sharpshooter? Not balanced. Wild shape? Good god, not even close to balanced!

 

[Lanliss]

I suppose my point was that I don't think such a system is possible. If every build is the same, there is no optimizing things. Also, sounds pretty boring. You'd have to remove anything too abnormal or distinct in the interest of balance. Polymorph? Nope, not balanced. Sharpshooter? Not balanced. Wild shape? Good god, not even close to balanced!

You are assuming this system is built in a similar way to 5E. Assuming those spells or abilities could be balanced against others of a similar level, would you be interested? There is a reason it is a hypothetical, because this system does not exist yet. The simple question is if, in a million years when they perfect gaming, there were such a game, would you play it?

 

[Celtavian]

I find this characterization highly questionable. I think the word you're looking for here is "munchkin", not "powergamer."

I don't see a difference.

 

[Celtavian]

Thank you for your response. This is the response I expected from most power gamers; however, if you read through this thread you will see that it is not the majority of the responses I have received. I think you may need to rethink your assumptions about power gamers - I know I have!

If there not powergaming, I wouldn't consider them a powergamer. My response fits powergamers meaning people that play this game for power.

Optimizers are a slightly lower level of min-maxing. I don't know that I would put them in the same category as powergamers. Optimizers tend to optimize a concept, but it's not always the most powerful combat character. Powergamers are in it purely for the power to lay waste.

Powergamers are annoying. Optimizers I don't mind so much. I expect players to optimize character concepts.

If I were looking at it as a sort of categorization system, it would look something like this.

Min/Maxers: Players that seek to minimize weaknesses and maximize strengths.
A. Power Gamer: A player that plays the game with little regard for story or concept focused purely on mechanical power to lay waste to anything he faces in the game system. Story and concept are incidental to this player.
B. Optimizer: A player that attempts to optimize a character concept within the framework of the game world. Story and concept are taken into account when making optimization choices and justified within the context of the game world and character background.

 

[dave2008]

I suppose my point was that I don't think such a system is possible. If every build is the same, there is no optimizing things. Also, sounds pretty boring. You'd have to remove anything too abnormal or distinct in the interest of balance. Polymorph? Nope, not balanced. Sharpshooter? Not balanced. Wild shape? Good god, not even close to balanced!

It is not a system building question, it is a theoretical one. If you can't get over that cognitive leap that's cool, no worries. Also, I don't think balance = boring = no difference. I can definitely imagine a game that would provide all those distinct things and meet the intent of the OP (I don't know if it is actually possible - but I can imagine it).