A Thought on Kylo Ren

Water Bob

Adventurer
1724931_1035205713210725_342558663042401186_n.jpg
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Ep5:
"Luke, you can destroy the Emperor. He has foreseen it ! Join me - together we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy." Later "we can rule the galaxy as father and son."
But while saying this, Vader is under orders to turn Luke to the Dark Side or destroy him. Telling him "btw, we're going to visit the Emperor next" is contra-indicated. I thought Vader's whole discussion - from "I am your father" to Luke jumping into the bottomless pit - was falsehoods, intended to confuse Luke and make him more susceptible to Vader / Palpatine's manipulations.

Ep6:
Now Vader is under orders to bring Luke to the Emperor - probably because his solo effort to turn Luke failed. He is plain about this to Luke. Vader never does anything against the Emperor - he does stretch the letter of his orders a bit, but not the spirit - until the Emperor turns against him: "Fulfill your destiny, and take your father's place at my side." When Luke demonstrates his loyalty to Anakin/Vader instead and endures the Emperor's displeasure as a result, THEN the betrayed and outraged Vader lays ungentle hands on Palpatine.

My take on it was that Vader was serious in Episode V, at least at the time of the offer. Then in Episode VI when Luke had already demonstrated that he wasn't going to turn AND was further trained, making it even less likely that Luke would join him, Vader complied with the Emperor's wishes.
 

MarkB

Legend
I agree, Kylo handles his anger better than Vader. Sure, he vents in a violent fashion, but he doesn't kill the messenger.

My impression was that Kylo simply didn't have quite the level of seniority or authority within the First Order to go around killing his own people in a fit of pique.
 

Ruzak

First Post
My impression was that Kylo simply didn't have quite the level of seniority or authority within the First Order to go around killing his own people in a fit of pique.
This is probably an element of it. I don't have a good sense of Kylo's ranking in the organization. He & Hux seem similar to Vader & Tarkin. Then again, Vader looks to have complete authority in ESB, when most of the choking takes place.
 

MarkB

Legend
This is probably an element of it. I don't have a good sense of Kylo's ranking in the organization. He & Hux seem similar to Vader & Tarkin. Then again, Vader looks to have complete authority in ESB, when most of the choking takes place.

Yeah, I think rank-wise they're similar to Vader and Tarkin. The difference is that Vader and Tarkin had mutual respect, whereas Kylo and Hux don't.

Also, "Kylo and Hux" sounds like a great buddy-cop show.
 

Ruzak

First Post
It's hard to tell, because we don't see Vader & Tarkin blaming each other in front of the emperor. They and their relationship are certainly more mature than the buddy cops.
 


Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer
The difference is that Vader and Tarkin had mutual respect, whereas Kylo and Hux don't.
After watching Ep3, this change might have been in order...
Anakin/Vader, chasing Kenobi towards the lava flow, should have passed some clone troopers led by a tall thin guy who is an ambitious lieutenant with aspirations to higher position (Tarkin). He asks Anakin if he needs help; Anakin says "No, I'll take him myself," and departs through a door. Tarkin thinks about it a minute (realizes that Anakin is special to Palpatine) and tells his troops "Jedi are dangerous opponents. We're going to back him up." They cannot keep up once the two combatants get over the flowing lava, and only arrive after Kenobi leaves Anakin behind gravely injured and near death. (Maybe Kenobi leaves because he senses their approach?) Tarkin orders his men to rescue Vader and he calls for medical support. When the Emperor finally arrives, Tarkin has the situation well in hand - Vader is wrapped in a medpallet - and is clearly responsible for saving Vader from death. This improves his standing in Palpatine's eyes immensely AND establishes him as somebody who figures out the Emperor's will and implements it without having to be constantly supervised.

Between movies, it seems that he and Vader occasionally work together, both of them help the other out when necessary. They are rivals for the Emperor's attention and for influence, but they are not enemies. Neither are they friends. They watch each others' backs and do not gloat over each other when something goes badly. (As a result, the Emperor usually keeps them busy and far away from each other - building the Death Star and finding the stolen plans is an unusual intersection by this time.)
I do not see Tarkin pointing fingers at somebody else during the Emperor's "after-action report" when a project goes awry; I see him explaining how he made the best of a collapsing situation and brought out something - albeit not what was wanted originally - despite all obstacles.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
After watching Ep3, this change might have been in order...
Anakin/Vader, chasing Kenobi towards the lava flow, should have passed some clone troopers led by a tall thin guy who is an ambitious lieutenant with aspirations to higher position (Tarkin). He asks Anakin if he needs help; Anakin says "No, I'll take him myself," and departs through a door. Tarkin thinks about it a minute (realizes that Anakin is special to Palpatine) and tells his troops "Jedi are dangerous opponents. We're going to back him up." They cannot keep up once the two combatants get over the flowing lava, and only arrive after Kenobi leaves Anakin behind gravely injured and near death. (Maybe Kenobi leaves because he senses their approach?) Tarkin orders his men to rescue Vader and he calls for medical support. When the Emperor finally arrives, Tarkin has the situation well in hand - Vader is wrapped in a medpallet - and is clearly responsible for saving Vader from death. This improves his standing in Palpatine's eyes immensely AND establishes him as somebody who figures out the Emperor's will and implements it without having to be constantly supervised.

Between movies, it seems that he and Vader occasionally work together, both of them help the other out when necessary. They are rivals for the Emperor's attention and for influence, but they are not enemies. Neither are they friends. They watch each others' backs and do not gloat over each other when something goes badly. (As a result, the Emperor usually keeps them busy and far away from each other - building the Death Star and finding the stolen plans is an unusual intersection by this time.)
I do not see Tarkin pointing fingers at somebody else during the Emperor's "after-action report" when a project goes awry; I see him explaining how he made the best of a collapsing situation and brought out something - albeit not what was wanted originally - despite all obstacles.

I think it's more that Tarkin is high up in the command structure, while Vader is outside it as the Emperer's personal henchman. Technically Vader has no military rank.
 

He doesn't scare me. Without his mask I look at him go...... "Does your mom know you're out this late?"


Spoiled Brat.... not a force of vile darkness or tyranny
 

Remove ads

AD6_gamerati_skyscraper

Remove ads

Recent & Upcoming Releases

Top