A Tournament of Cosmic Propotions! (Immortal's Handbook Rules)

On BESM:

I am of the opinion that BESM is a less than useful document for making anime-themed d20 games (I ran a game based on the Persona series, and didn't use any of the content from it, because none of it was appropriate). As a pop-culture product, it's showing its age, and seems to mainly be about replicating cheesy anime from the nineties. Although an update to reflect things that came out after 2004 (It's weird looking at a document that talks about giant robots and doesn't mention Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, for instance) would probably turn it into TVtropes: The RPG, as given the style of the thing TVtropes sounds like something the authors would have loved had it existed while they were writing it. It's not a bad attempt for what it is, but it's trying to be far too broad by claiming to be an 'Anime RPG', since you may as well try to make a "Books RPG", or a "Theatrical RPG". It's actually more of a "American impression of anime circa 1999 RPG", what with it seemingly being all about giant robots, big-breasted short-skirted schoolgirls who are inexplicably as strong as said giant robots, monster collecting, ninjas and superpowerful martial artists who grunt a lot. That it doesn't even think light novels or visual novels exist is telling. Perhaps I'm being too harsh on it, but it claims an awful lot by being an "anime role-player's handbook". A campaign setting, even a bare-bones one would have helped, since then it could just claim "This is our setting, and it has all these anime tropes in it", which is a lot more resistant to criticism over inclusivity than "this system is for playing anime-themed RPGs".

I agree with the fact that it's got a very bare-bone feel to the system and a lot of work is required on behalf on the GM to make a campaign setting. For me it was easy because I had already been role-playing in the world for a decade by the time i finally found a set of rules I liked, so campaign setting was never a problem for me, but I see what you mean.

On the Untouchable:

The touch AC prerequisite is hard to adjudicate, and probably easy to get way earlier than you should. There's no real way of specifying a minimum AC that doesn't end with characters spontaneously losing all class features should they, say, take a bunch of Dex damage dropping them below 200 AC. It's probably also a prerequisite which will rely quite a lot on other derived abilities, so things like Abrogate, sunder or antimagic could cause them to lose all class features. A minimum number of ranks in Tumble should probably substitute.

Agreed. Instead of ranks in tumble I'd probably just do like say... perhaps maybe 70-90 ranks required in a couple of dex based skills. Tumble & Balance seem the most relevant for the class.

Ability score prerequisites are also counterindicated by the design guidelines, because of the same reasons. You can qualify for the class early using items, and you lose all class features should you take a bunch of Dex damage.

Substituting for skill ranks seems logical. Making the class have a feature that makes them immune to dex damage is a possible patch-work solution, but since it is impossible to drain skill ranks, it seems unnecessary.

A Parry bonus? Why the new bonus type? There's no particular reason why it shouldn't provide a Shield bonus or a Dodge bonus.

Parry bonus is basically meant to replace shield bonus for this class. As a variant rule, parry bonuses and shield bonuses do not stack with one another, you take whichever is highest. Effectively they are the same bonus, but in order for it to qualify as a parry bonus instead of a shield bonus, you must be able to threaten someone with it. For example if you are holding two longswords you can gain a parry bonus to your AC. Two weapon defense grants a parry bonus for example. However if you are holding a longsword and a shield you cannot gain both your shield and parry bonus, rather just take whichever is higher. Characters that use natural weapons may parry with natural weapons.

Opportunistic Disarm, as written, doesn't do anything. Well, doesn't do anything unless the user triggers an AoO which subsequently misses. You can't use Free Actions when it's not your turn. You want an Immediate action.

You are correct sir. I must have missed that. Sorry. Going on 36+ hours without sleep.

If your version of Force Field relies on DvR, then giving it to a potentially non-divine character means it sucks (which is why my version goes off HD).

Personally I really like Bels' rules for force field.

Impossible Combat Expertise should be capped at the penalty to AC taken to attack rolls, so you don't just take the class and then Cexpertise for -1 every turn to get +11 AC. It should probably also just say "When taking a penalty on attack rolls due to Combat Expertise, or Fighting Defensively, the Untouchable gains an untyped bonus to AC equal to the penalty taken, or his class level, whichever is lower. When using the Total Defence action, he gains an untyped bonus to armour class equal to his class level."

Good point. I'll make some adjustments. Like i said the class was meant to be a moch up. Thanks for the feedback btw.

Overall it seems to provide loads of benefits for very little drawback. Sure, it doesn't give great offence, but five levels of this class is basically immunity to attacks which require an attack roll. It's a Sorcerer PrC if I ever did see one. Total Defence (which, even with the minimum qualifying AC of 200 means his AC becomes 460 plus double Cha mod so in the region of 500-600 with no effort at al) and cast nothing but quickened spells. Adding the "unencumbered and no armour" restriction for all the class features helps, but still doesn't stop the fact that it's most useful for casters, who don't need their Full Round actions anyway.

Perhaps I could help to keep it out of certain hands by adding specific class features as prerequisites?

And even if giving out Cosmics to PrCs was okay, which it isn't, his ability list seems to contain a lot of stuff that's really off theme. Nullification, for instance, (which is also occupying the dubious honour of the only Cosmic ability better than most Transcendental abilities) is supposed to be for umbrals and other horrifying cosmic monstrosities, not people who are good at dodging. The natural armour boosting DvAs and Cosmics also seem cross-theme, since it's not about armour, and Unyielding damage reduction. They're about getting hit and shrugging it off, not not getting hit.

I assume 'Shunpo' is a custom DvA?

I agree with a lot of what you said. once again class was a prototype. Feedback appreciated. Adjustments will be made before finalization.

Shunpo is a custom DVA. Basically it allows you to move up to your base movement speed once per round as a swift, free, or immediate action. Regardless of which action type you use it as, it can still only be used once per round. It's sort of like quicken greater teleport for ninja. Shunpo is japanese for "flash step" iirc.
 

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Personally I really like Bels' rules for force field.

o_O You do? I've been using your rule so far... Not a tough fix, though.

And Shunpo is similar to an ability from Deities and Demigods, I believe. Kind of surprised UK never included one like that.
 

o_O You do? I've been using your rule so far... Not a tough fix, though.

Yes actually I like your rules better than mine. Yours tend to scale better. Plus it was your idea to make them stackable and affected by the HP mult.

Also I've been thinking about the HP mult. rule and I've considered maybe trying to figure out a way to grant it to Mortals without just making them divine or partially divine? What do you think? Or should I leave it as is and give gods a HUGE advantage in terms of HP for this tournament? Doesn't really seem fair but D&D doesn't have to be fair, it just has to be fun. Trouble is, something is very rarely biased and still fun.

Okay. I think I've finally run out of steam. Should be crashing now. You and Buug should feel free to discuss whatever you may like, but this will probably be my last post, at least for today. So....very....sleepy....
 

I'd be really hesitant to hand something like that out. The fact of the matter is, there shouldn't really be normal mortals at this level. If they've gotten this high without ascending to godhood, they probably have some other means of boosting their HP, among other things, either through classes, templates, or artifacts.
 

Perhaps I could help to keep it out of certain hands by adding specific class features as prerequisites?

Depends, most of the class feature requirements you could think of also limit perfectly valid choices.


Neo Polymorpheus is done. He's probably too strong, because Lord of the Skull is amazingly good. So good, in fact that one of his items grants it, so you can only Abrogate one (this is actually needed, as otherwise Abrogate would get rid of Phylactery Transference, removing all his items from usefulness), and even with it twice it's still a good deal. He may not look like a combat monster now, but that's how strong he is when Diminutive and lacking any arms or legs. This is a summary character sheet, as posting all the favoured wildshape forms would use up loads of space.

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Polymorpheus (Human Dry Lich Ranger 60 Psibond Agent 10 Master of Many Forms 10 Lesser Deity of Death and Dreams), was destroyed by a Dämmerung-class anti-pantheon weapon system sent against him and several other deities, and assassins tracked down and destroyed his canopic jars. However, he was not to be put down so easily, as a powerful epic spell had been cast on his jars, which would reincarnate him if they were ever destroyed. The spell didn't quite function as intended, probably due to the interference of the assassins, and his spirit wandered alone in the desert for over a century before managing to possess an unfortunate Gloaming (who had been displaced there in a teleportation accident). This experience changed Polymorpheus forever, and once he'd regained his power, he had no concern over the realm of dreams, only able to remember the endless decades of wandering the scorching desert and his hatred towards everything alive, he's firmly committed to wiping out all living creatures in the world.

Neo Polymorpheus is a dried-out sun-bleached male Gloaming skull, with crystal eyes and soul gems for teeth. He's usually surrounded by a cloud of whirling sand which seems to contain the shadow of the body of the unknown Gloaming the skull once belonged to. This is rarely a form people see, as he's able to assume the form of almost any living creature, although all of these forms appear as desiccated corpses, somehow able to move with speed and vigour that even living specimens didn't possess.

Neo Polymorpheus
Gloaming Dry Demilich Greater Deity
Wildshape(UA)/Wastland(SSt)/Champion of the Wild(CC)/Distracting Attack(PHB2)/Arcane Hunter(CM) Variant Ranger 85(SRD)/Master of Many Forms 10(CA)/Warshaper 5(CW)
Size/Type: Diminutive Undead (3 VSCs, Augmented Fey, Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 100d20+13,968 (15,200 hp, x4 =60,800)
Initiative: +91, Perfect, Sixth Sense
Speed: Fly 1,650 ft. (330 squares, perfect)
Armour Class: 475 (+30 Natural, +4 Size, +83 Dexterity, +100 Insight, +16 Luck, +84 Dodge, +132 Deflection, +0 Misc, +0 Competence, +16 Divine), touch 445, flat-footed 308
Base Attack/Grapple: +60/+88
Attack: unarmed strike +442 melee (2d6+133 plus 2d6 bane plus 25d6 scouring plus 4 negative levels plus 528 negative energy /20/x2)
Full Attack: unarmed strike +442/+437/+432/+427 melee (2d6+133 plus 2d6 bane plus 25d6 scouring plus 4 negative levels plus 528 negative energy /20/x2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Wildshape, Wild Empathy, Aura of Despair, Fear Aura, SLAs, Morphic Healing, Trap the Soul
Attack Options: Favoured Enemy, Uncanny Power Attack Mastery, Two-Weapon Rend
Defence Options: Weapon Abatement, Elusive Target, Improved Combat Mastery
Special Qualities: Immune to Stunning, Critical Hits, Natural Effects, Old Age, Aging, Transmutation, Polymorph, Electricity, Mind-Affecting Effects, Cold, Magic (except shatter, holy smite, dispel evil), poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, energy drain, physical ability score damage, fatigue, exaustion, dessication, fatigue, exaustion, thirst, effects which require fort saves (unless objects), death from massive damage, necromancy, decapitation, Fast Heal 2 (54 in arid environments), Unholy Toughness, Water Weakness (Double damage), Positive Energy Vulnerability, Sterility, +1 CL on Necromancy, Turn Resistance +26, Darkvision 600ft, Low-Light Vision x20, Healed 5hp/level by negative energy, Hostile Environment (Humid), Sand Shape, Shadow Spells, Luminescence, Light Blindness, Divine Senses, Vision x2 in dusty/smoky conditions, Immunity Penetration (Fatigue, Dessication, Negative Energy), Resist Acid 20, Fire 20, Sonic 20, SR 126, DR 40/epic, 15/bludgeoning and epic, Half damage from Vorpal, Phylacteric Transference, Canopic Jars
Saves: Fort +202, Ref +286, Will +227
Skills: See Full Breakdown, Maven.
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Superior Unarmed Strike, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike), Alertness, Dodge, Mobility, Elusive Target, Corrupted Wild Shape, Lifesense, Life Drain, Improved Energy Drain, Combat Reflexes, Improved Favoured Enemy, Quick Change, Favoured Power Attack, Power Attack, Extended Reach, Martial Study (Inferno Blade), Improved Initiative, Portal Sensitive, Track, Heat Endurance, Weapon Finesse, Sandskimmer, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Combat Expertise
Epic Feats: Two-Weapon Mastery, Uncanny Two-Weapon Fighting, Dragon Wild Shape, Colossal Wild Shape, Improved Elemental Wild Shape, Improved Combat Expertise, Weapon Abatement, Improved Finesse, Combat Mastery, Uncanny Power Attack, Greater Power Attack, Sixth Sense, Improved Dodge, Superior Initiative, Blinding Speed, Tenacious Magic, Automatic Quicken Spell, Epic Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike), Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Rend, Bane of Enemies
Divine Abilities: Anyfeat x2 (Planar Wildshape (Fire), Dark Stalker), Improved Dragon Wildshape, Hybrid Wildshape, Lord of Bone (Dry Lich), (Celerity), Heavenly Mind, Heavenly Soul, Learned Spell Immunity, (Perfect Initiative), Spell Abatement, (Uncanny Dodge), (Heavenly Body), Animus, Perfect Negative Energy Mastery, Perfect Scouring Mastery (Set to Strikes)
Cosmic Abilities: Lord of the Skull, (Lord of the Skull), (Legendary Charisma), (Legendary Dexterity)
Environment: Hot Deserts
Organisation: Solitary (Unique)
Challenge Rating: 122
Treasure: Crystal Skull, Belt of Magnificence +6, Gloves of Cosmic Dexterity, Galactic Dust (Jar), Cloak of Cosmic Charisma (all with Phylactery)
ECL: 182

All of Polymorpheus's items are stored with his phylactery.

Belt of Magnificence +6: Provides a +6 enhancement bonus to all ability scores
Crystal Skull (Major Artefact)
A skull made of pure diamond, worn over the wearer's head, like a helmet (which always seems to work, regardless of the size of the wearer's head), it provides the wearer with the ability to see dangers that will potentially harm them in the future, granting Perfect Initiative, Celerity, Superior Initiative and Uncanny Dodge. It also transforms any Lich wearing it into a Demilich, although this has no effect on Polymopheus because he's already a Demilich.
Cloak of Cosmic Charisma, Gloves of Cosmic Dexterity, minor artefacts, these provide the wearer with the Legendary Charisma and Legendary Dexterity Cosmic abilities, and a +54 Enhancement bonus to Dexterity and Charisma.
Galactic Dust(Major Artefact)
This seemingly uninteresting jar contains dust harvested from beyond the stars, in intergalactic space. When held, it confers the Cosmic Ability Chimerical, and a +31 enhancement bonus to attack and damage for the user's natural attacks.
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This is probably a dumb question, but why not just make him a demilich rather than giving it to him via Lord of the Skull? Presumably a template can't be Abrogated. I must be missing something.
 

This is probably a dumb question, but why not just make him a demilich rather than giving it to him via Lord of the Skull? Presumably a template can't be Abrogated. I must be missing something.

Um, technically the Demilich template is equivalent to two and a half cosmic abilities. It's a level adjustment 15 template. I was actually wanning to rework the demilich by splitting it up into progressively more powerful age categories, much in the way the standard lich is broken into age categories.

Dicefreaks d20 Community • View topic - Dicefreaks Lich Template

However, I never actually got the time to sit down and work out the math, or any salient lich abilities that would be appropriate for the demilich. The regular lich seems to possess abilities that are similar to feats, maybe even epic feats, in their scale of power. Perhaps Demiliches should possess something akin to divine abilities in the scale of power for their sailent abilities? Akaliches, if they are broken into age categories, should get something equivalent to Cosmic abilities in the scale of power for their salient abilities.

EvilMonkeyGod, a Dicefreak with whom I am actually still in contact, was originally wanting to enter an Akalich into the tournament, but I told him that he could do so under one condition, if he would be willing to help me rework the demilich/akalich and split them up into at least six age categories, each progressively more powerful than the last.

Anyway, I did at least manage to rework the standard epic level handbook demilich to where you may retain your salient lich abilities when taking the template.
 

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How do you get 15? The SRD says CR +6, Lich is CR +2, CR 8 is ECL 12, making it two cosmics exactly. Which is still twice as powerful as it ought to be, though, I wonder if the template is even worth that boost...

Anyway, I always that the "You get X template" abilities were kind of dumb, considering the character could just... take the template if they wanted it.

Also, I'd have to see what you're planning for the Akalich as regards its ECL, what the baselines is, and how many cosmic abilities it would be getting. Those things really ought to be pretty rare before ECL 240+.

And, I remember EMG. Is he still entering Veldrin in the tournament or planning to?
 

How do you get 15? The SRD says CR +6, Lich is CR +2, CR 8 is ECL 12, making it two cosmics exactly. Which is still twice as powerful as it ought to be, though, I wonder if the template is even worth that boost...

Anyway, I always that the "You get X template" abilities were kind of dumb, considering the character could just... take the template if they wanted it.

Also, I'd have to see what you're planning for the Akalich as regards its ECL, what the baselines is, and how many cosmic abilities it would be getting. Those things really ought to be pretty rare before ECL 240+.

And, I remember EMG. Is he still entering Veldrin in the tournament or planning to?

I readjusted the template on Demilich to be LA +15 (Two cosmics, three divines). I agree the template abilities do seem rather silly.

EMG still wants to enter Veldrin, but we can't seem to figure out a way to buff up the Akalich to bring up to par with the Lich & Demilich as far as salient abilities are concerned. To be honest the reason why I abandoned work on the Akalich is because i didn't even know where to begin.

Phaedros seems to be good at that sort of thing. ALL of my chat/PM priveleges have been revoked on DF, so would you mind sending him a PM for me on DF boards and ask him if he's interested in helping us develop a new Akalich Template? Probably somewhere between LA +70 to +100.
 

Eh... I don't exactly hang out there anymore, don't really feel comfortable going back to try and reconnect with people, if you don't mind.

I'm the three of us can come up with something suitable if we put our minds to it. I'll see what I can think of tomorrow after I get some sleep.
 

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