A true20 like Damage Save System for 3.x

[Sadrik]

Sadrik’s Simplified Damage Save System

[B][U]Converted Damage[/U][/B]
D2		+0
D3		+1
D4 		+2
D6		+3
D8		+4
D10		+5
D12		+6
D16		+8
D20		+10

Damage Difficulty Class = 10 + Converted Damage + Possible Strength Modifier + Feats or Other Modifiers.
Example 1: a 10d6 fireball would be a DC 40 damage (10 + 3x10 = 40)or reflex for ½ at DC 25 damage (10 + 3x10/2 = 25).
Example 2: an 18 strength great axe wielder would be DC 22 damage(10 + 6 axe + 6 for 2-handed 18 str = 22).

Calculate Damage Resistance Save
DR Save = Constitution modifier + Armor Modifier + Feats

Non-Lethal Damage (Stun)
Stun- Creatures have half their hit die type + size bonus + their BCB stun. Multi-class characters average their hit die types. Example: a medium sized 1st level fighter would have 8 stun (5hd + 2size + 1bcb).
Non-lethal Damage- If a creature fails its DR save from non-lethal damage it takes 1 or more stun. See the damage chart below. Each stun the character has gives a -1 penalty to subsequent DR saves from non-lethal damage.
Stunned- If a creature goes to 0 or lower stun they become stunned for 1 round. Additionally, if a creatue takes half or more of its maximum stun total in one hit it becomes stunned. The creature must also make a constitution check DC 10 + its current stun or become unconscious
Unconscious- An unconscious creature can take no actions and is helpless.

Lethal Damage (Wounds)
Wounds- Creatures have half their hit die type + size bonus + their BCB wounds. Multi-class characters average their hit die types. Example: a medium sized 1st level fighter would have 8 wounds (5hd + 2size + 1bcb).
Lethal Damage- If a creature fails its DR save from lethal damage it takes 1 wound and 1 stun. See the damage chart below. Each wound the character has gives a -1 penalty to subsequent DR saves from lethal damage.
Disabled- If a creature goes to 0 or lower wounds it becomes disabled. Additionally, if a creatue takes half or more of its maximum wound total in one hit it becomes disabled. If a creature takes a standard action while disabled it must make a constitution check DC 10 + its current wounds or become dying.
Dying- A dying creature is conscious but can take only free actions.

Recovery
Stun Recovery- Stun points are recovered at rate of 1 stun per minute.
Wound Recover- Wound points are recovered at 1 wound per day. With a successful DC 15 heal check 2 wounds are recovered per day.
Disabled Condition Recovery- After 8 hours of rest, a disabled creature can make a constitution check DC 10 + its current wounds to recover. With a successful DC 15 heal check it is automatic.
Dying Condition Recovery- Every round a dying creature must make a dying check. Afailed dying check means they die. If they make the check by 5 or more they become disabled and are no longer dying. With a successful DC 15 heal check it is automatic.
Unconscious Condition Recovery- Every minute, an unconscious creature can attempt to become conscious again by making a constitution check DC 10 + their current stun.

[B][U]Damage Chart[/U]
Failed roll by  	Wounds/Stun taken[/B]
1-4	1
5-9                 	2
10-14              	3
15-19              	4
20-24              	5
25-29              	6
etc.

[B][U]Size Chart[/U]
Size  	Wounds/Stun Modifier[/B]
Fine	-14
Diminutive	-6
Tiny	-2
Small	+0
Medium	+2
Large	+4
Huge	+6
Gargantuan	+10
Collossal	+18

Other Required Changes
Base Attack Bonus (BAB) becomes Base Combat Bonus (BCB) and adds to the characters Defense (AC) and their attacks.
Armor does not add to armor class it adds to DR saves.
Energy Resistance: Half it and ignore up to that much damage from that damage type.
Damage Reduction: Half it and ignore up to that much damage unless they have the correct damage type.
Hardness: Add it as an natural armor bonus that stacks with other natural armor
Creatures without a con score: ignore non-lethal damage, have a DR bonus equal to ½ their hit dice.
Cure minor wounds: heals 1 stun or automatically makes a heal check.
Cure light wounds: heals 2 wounds and stun, save for half (vs undead), also remove the disabled and unconscious conditions if they bring a character back to positive wounds. Cure moderate wounds: heals 4, Cure serious wounds: heals 6, Cure critical wounds: heals 8, and Heal: heals all wounds and stun.
Inflict spells would do the opposite, save for half.

 

[Sadrik]

Is this too out there for comments?

Basically HP are done away with...

And characters get a DR save based on the above formula.

When they fail the save they get penalties.

When their penalties stack up they get more chance to fail their DR checks etc.

Eventually, after failing their save enough times they go down.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Maybe give an extended example?

One quirk about your system I notice is that the Damage DC is slightly lowered if damage is based off of multiple dice (you're fireball example - average damage would be 35, but your system makes it +30 on the DC. A greatsword doing 2d6 would have an average of +7; your system would make it a +6 - not the same as a straight d12.)

 

[ValhallaGH]

Could you please explain the Dying Recovery again? The current version doesn't make any sense (to me).

 

[Sadrik]

Maybe give an extended example?

Sure:

Saa the Arch Mage is strolling along and gets surprised by Abu the rogue.

Abu is 10th level and sneak attacks Saa with his 14 strength and +4 short sword for 1d6 +4 (magic) +2 (str) + 5d5 sneak attack. Converting that to the system above that becomes +24. Adding 10 for the base DC that means that Saa will need to make a DR check DC 34 pretty high for a wizard...

Saa has a +5 bracers of armor which gives him +5 to his DR save and his con is 16 so that gives him +3 to his a DR save, for a total of of +8. Saa rolls a 12 on his d20 for a total of 20. 20 minus 34 is 14. He narrowly escapes becoming disabled in 1 hit! He did fail his save by 14 though so he gains 1 wound for failing his save another for failing his save by 5 and another for failing his save by 10. Saa took 3 wounds total and whenever you take a wound you also take an equal amount of stun (but not vice verse). A wizard only has 4 wounds and stun so Saa had better do something quick to Abu. He also is -3 to further DR saves.

Saa turns and hits Abu with a quickened scorching ray he hits the rogue with all 3 rays. Each ray does 4d6 damage +1 (from point blank shot). Converting the damage they would be 12 +1 +10 = DC 23 damage each. The rogue has to make a save 3 times at DC 23.

Abu has +3 Leather armor which gives him +5 to his DR save, has a con of 14 so that gives him +2 to his a DR save, Has a ring of protection +2 and an amulet of natural armor +2 for an additional +4 from both for a total of of +11 for his DR save. Abu rolls an 20, 1, and a 10 for totals of 31, 12 and 21. The first ray (31) had no effect on Abu (plus a 20 always succeeds). The second ray (12) struck Abu solidly for 3 wounds and 3 stun (failed by >10 but <15), and the last ray (21) just damaged him 1 wound and 1 stun. So Abu was struck for 4 wounds and 4 stun out of his 5 and he takes -4 to further DR saves.

Then, for Saa's standard action he blasts Abu with a 10d6 lightning bolt, doing 30 +10 base for a total damage DC of 40. Abu has improved evasion and can only fail the Reflex save on a 1. Oops he does. So the damage DC is 1/2 or the 30 damage + the 10 base. For a total damage DC of 25. Again Abu rolls his DR save and rolls a 10. He adds his +11 and his -4 DR save penalty for having 4 wounds for a total of 17. He fails by 5 but not by 10 so he takes 2 wound and 2 stun. putting his at -1 wounds because rogues have 5 wounds.

So, he is unconscious and disabled.

Saa decides not to blast him anymore.

Abu recovers 1 stun per minute so he eventually becomes conscious when he reaches a positive score. Though he is still disabled.

Abu recovers his disabled condition by resting 8 hours. Note: You must also have a positive wound total to recover from being disabled. Normally 1 wound per day, 2 with a heal 15 check.

After 2 minutes Abu wakes in his disabled status only able to take move actions. But he decides to take a standard action and risk dying. So, he makes a con check DC 10 + his current wounds (-1). He rolls a 5 and fails. He is now dying.

Abu can only take free actions while dying. Every round Abu must make a Dying check or die. The check is a con check DC 10 + his current wounds (-1). If he can manage to make this roll by 5 he manages to stabilize himself back to the disabled condition.

Saa sees Abu struggling to hang onto life so decides to save him for questioning. He needs to make a DC 15 heal check to stabilize him back to disabled. He does.

Does this give a pretty good example of what is happening? Hopefully ValhallaGH this explains the dying check and recovery.

I would like some critique and ideas to improve the system.

For instance What about giving the characters more wounds and stun as they go up in level.

 

[ValhallaGH]

That answers my question.

Increasing the number of wounds by level is dependant upon the desired effect. If you want high level heroes to be able to take insan-o damages repeatedly before dropping then have it scale with level. If you want everyone to be equally threatened by all damage then stick with the current version (high level characters have better gear and ability scores to let them suvive a single insan-o damage).


I would like to point out that your change to hardness means that a Three Foot Thick Adamantine Door has a DR Save of +10. Which means that an average commoner can punch through it in a minute or two on average roles.

 

[Sadrik]

That answers my question.

Good, sometimes the fluff part is harder than the crunch for me!

Increasing the number of wounds by level is dependant upon the desired effect. If you want high level heroes to be able to take insan-o damages repeatedly before dropping then have it scale with level. If you want everyone to be equally threatened by all damage then stick with the current version (high level characters have better gear and ability scores to let them suvive a single insan-o damage).

Yeah, I think more wounds would be more "d&d" and less would be more "real". Any idea a good progression for a more d&d feel? 1/2 hd per level (2-6 per level)? [20th level barbarian would have too many 120...]. What about add their BAB to their wounds too? Ew! I like that.

I would like to point out that your change to hardness means that a Three Foot Thick Adamantine Door has a DR Save of +10. Which means that an average commoner can punch through it in a minute or two on average roles.

Dont forget the 10 base too... so it would be DC 20 for an adamantine door.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Yeah, I think more wounds would be more "d&d" and less would be more "real". Any idea a good progression for a more d&d feel? 1/2 hd per level (2-6 per level)? [20th level barbarian would have too many 120...]. What about add their BAB to their wounds too? Ew! I like that.

I've seen the same suggestion on the True20 forums, from those that want more HP-like mechanics in their games. The one I can recall gave everyone 20 + Combat Bonus hp. I can't recall if they kept toughness saves or not, though I think they did.

Dont forget the 10 base too... so it would be DC 20 for an adamantine door.

I thought the base only applied to the damage?
I.e. a commoner deals +1 damage with a punch, forcing a DR save DC 11. The door makes a save and fails on a one, only (autofailure). It accumulates 1 wound point of it's unknown base wounds. If it only had the one then the door is now 'dying', and being an object reduced to the dying status, it is 'dead'.

Heck, that trait is always there as long as DR saves can be automatically failed. A cockroach can kung-fu kick an adamantine vault door off of its hinges....
That ain't right.

Separate issue.
I think your size penalties may be too steep. There aren't a lot of small characters in most games (that I've played in) to begin with; this makes them even less desirable. Chopping those penalties in half would make them much more playable. I do like the symetry but....

 

[Warbringer]

I would like to point out that your change to hardness means that a Three Foot Thick Adamantine Door has a DR Save of +10. Which means that an average commoner can punch through it in a minute or two on average roles.

In my conversion, leave hardness as is, and an object has wounds = [hit points/5]

 

[Sadrik]

I thought the base only applied to the damage?
I.e. a commoner deals +1 damage with a punch, forcing a DR save DC 11. The door makes a save and fails on a one, only (autofailure). It accumulates 1 wound point of it's unknown base wounds. If it only had the one then the door is now 'dying', and being an object reduced to the dying status, it is 'dead'.

Zowey your right. I mixed the mods up. So a commoner does 11 damage and the adamantine door has a 1d20 + 10 to try and resist that damage. And your also right. Hardness should not be halved.

Something occurred to me about this too. Object should always "take a 10" on DR checks. Also for objects: size should modify how many wounds they have.

And thinking about this. This is also how size should work for creatures. Big squishy monsters should not be resistant to damage just because they are big... no wait maybe they should. I think they should get both.

Size adds a DR bonus or penalty: medium size is +0 then +1, +2, +3, +4 for larger sizes and -1, -2, -3, -4 for smaller sizes.
Size also adds bonus wounds: medium size is +0 then +2, +4, +8, +16 for larger sizes and -2, -4, -8, -16 for smaller sizes.

Heck, that trait is always there as long as DR saves can be automatically failed. A cockroach can kung-fu kick an adamantine vault door off of its hinges....
That ain't right.

D&D is a super heroic game. the 1 always miss and 20 always succeed should always be in place.

I think your size penalties may be too steep. There aren't a lot of small characters in most games (that I've played in) to begin with; this makes them even less desirable. Chopping those penalties in half would make them much more playable. I do like the symetry but....

How about those I listed above?

In my conversion, leave hardness as is, and an object has wounds = [hit points/5]

Wounds/5? how many wounds did you give the monsters and characters?