D&D 5E A tweak for the Battlemaster fighter

[Quartz]

TLDR: change the Battlemaster's maneuvers from per Short Rest to per round.

One of the big problems with the Fighter is that it actually sucks at fighting. Damage-wise it's balanced against the other battler classes - even the Ranger if you assume Hunter's Mark is active (and for a high level Ranger it can be active all day) - if you consider the basic attacks, but the other classes outshine it once you include attacks from the Bonus Action and the Reaction. The bonuses to damage that the other classes get simply outweigh whatever the Fighter gets.

Here's a typical table for higher-level PCs using the Duelling style. No feats.

Edit: tables snipped because they looked okay in composition but didn't on posting so I've uploaded the spreadsheet instead.

So how about adding per-round usage to the Battlemaster's maneuvers?

That is, at 3rd level the BM's maneuvers are as in the PHB, per Short Rest, but this changes at 5th level (maybe 6th?): in addition to the three uses per Short Rest, the Fighter gets one free use per round, two per round at 11th level, and three times per round at 17th level. You no longer gain extra superiority dice beyond the initial four. The BM gets a die or two of extra damage or can use them for other maneuvers.

 

[Esker]

Comparing the fighter to the other martial classes without factoring in their two extra feats is naturally going to make them look like they fall behind. I'd never play a fighter in a game that somehow didn't allow feats (I've never encountered a DM that does this). Even if you are restricting the analysis to dueling style (and thus ruling out -5/+10 feats), the Battlemaster in particular has an easier time proc-ing a reaction attack than most, between riposte and Sentinel (a must-have feat for a dueling fighter, IMO).

That said, I like the idea of making maneuvers once per round, with some extra uses per short rest granted at various levels (you want some extra uses in there so off-turn maneuvers like riposte/parry can be used without having to forego a maneuver on your turn in anticipation of needing one later). In a standard adventuring day, that's about the same as 4-5 uses per short rest anyway, but it reduces bookkeeping and the difficulty of having to decide whether they're worth using. Twice/thrice per round seems like too much though.

 

[Garthanos]

I had an idea that allowed one to spend one of their attacks to analyse the enemy / or sometimes an ally to enable the subsequent attack to function like you had a superiority die. It sort of lets them use maneuvers more but you are putting more eggs in one basket. But if you feel they arent potent enough that wouldn't help have you considered just making short rests the 5 minute catch you breath kind so that every fight they had all their uses?

 

[FrogReaver]

TLDR: change the Battlemaster's maneuvers from per Short Rest to per round.

One of the big problems with the Fighter is that it actually sucks at fighting. Damage-wise it's balanced against the other battler classes - even the Ranger if you assume Hunter's Mark is active (and for a high level Ranger it can be active all day) - if you consider the basic attacks, but the other classes outshine it once you include attacks from the Bonus Action and the Reaction. The bonuses to damage that the other classes get simply outweigh whatever the Fighter gets.

Here's a typical table for higher-level PCs using the Duelling style. No feats.

Edit: tables snipped because they looked okay in composition but didn't on posting so I've uploaded the spreadsheet instead.

So how about adding per-round usage to the Battlemaster's maneuvers?

That is, at 3rd level the BM's maneuvers are as in the PHB, per Short Rest, but this changes at 5th level (maybe 6th?): in addition to the three uses per Short Rest, the Fighter gets one free use per round, two per round at 11th level, and three times per round at 17th level. You no longer gain extra superiority dice beyond the initial four. The BM gets a die or two of extra damage or can use them for other maneuvers.

Ranger vs Battlemaster both using sword and shield

Over 20 rounds of combat (2 short rests) the ranger makes 40 attacks each at 1d8+1d6+7. Let's assume a 60% chance to hit.

The Fighter will make 46 attacks at 1d8+7 and do an additional 15d8 damage (with effects).

Ranger does 360 damage per day.
Fighter does 384.9 damage per day.

The Ranger has to be concerned about losing concentration. The fighter doesn't. The ranger's damage gets spread evenly throughout the fight. The fighters can be greatly frontloaded.

The only additional consideration is that the ranger can do typically gain some additional damage from whatever subclass he chooses. That will place daily damage a little ahead of the fighters but the fighter still has some important benefits like effects, front loaded damage, no concentration concerns, better AC (heavy armor), better stat spread due to being able to ignore dex, etc.

I much prefer the battlemaster fighter in 5e to the ranger when it comes to combat.

 

[Quartz]

Ranger vs Battlemaster both using sword and shield

You might check the spreadsheet I uploaded.

 

[FrogReaver]

You might check the spreadsheet I uploaded.

no need. I can do math

 

[Ashrym]

I prefer the battlemaster over the ranger in combat as is.

The premise looks like "let's take the short rest nova potential of a battlemaster and approach it every round" at high levels tbh. Champions already take flack for the amount of effort to make them worthwhile in comparison and Eldritch Knights are still going to be relying on daily spell mechanics.

Relentless already guarantees at least one maneuver per combat, and the maneuvers are more about the added effects than just damage.

my 2cp

 

[Quartz]

no need. I can do math

Really? Over 40 rounds a Ranger can make up to 160 attacks - two base attacks, an attack from a Bonus Action, and an attack from a Reaction each round.

The fighter is balanced excluding those, but fails when you include them. If you'd checked my spreadsheet you would have spotted this.

 

[Esker]

Really? Over 40 rounds a Ranger can make up to 160 attacks - two base attacks, an attack from a Bonus Action, and an attack from a Reaction each round.

The fighter is balanced excluding those, but fails when you include them. If you'd checked my spreadsheet you would have spotted this.

What is the ranger using to get a bonus action and reaction every round? Did you factor in the fighter's action surge and BM maneuver damage? How many rounds of bonus action attacks did you deduct for having to cast/move Hunter's Mark? I'd figure probably 1/3 of the time or so, maybe more.

 

[FrogReaver]

Really? Over 40 rounds a Ranger can make up to 160 attacks - two base attacks, an attack from a Bonus Action, and an attack from a Reaction each round.

The fighter is balanced excluding those, but fails when you include them. If you'd checked my spreadsheet you would have spotted this.

If you are using the bonus action then a better estimate is that you get it on half of your attacks IMO. Rounds 1 hunters mark + attack + attack. Rounds 2 attack + attack + attack -> enemy dies. Rounds 3 (repeat).

You are also sacrificing 1d8+2 damage vs 1d6 damage per attack.

Reactions attacks just aren't reliable unless you have 1-2 key reaction granting abilities so I have no idea how or why you are factoring them in.