A (very slightly) modified fighter

[Gez]

Well, it's still a boost in power, although maybe a small, and that would have a few little drawbacks.

1° What about other classes that gets Weapon Specialization? I'm thinking notably of the Psychic Warrior, but I know there's a few PrC in Sword & Fist that gave it too, and there's also the AU Warmain.
2° It would make these stunts available since level 4 -- which may be overkill. Through eyeballing, they seem OK for a level 8 or more, but some are maybe too powerful for a lower level.
3° We would have to remove the Weapon Mastery stunt, that would become clumsy.
4° We would have to rewrite GWF and GWS as stunts.
5° The number of weapons these applies to would potentially double, and to correct that, maybe stunts should affect only one weapon.


I'm not against boosting a class slightly in power -- slightly -- as long as it is to make it more interesting and flavorful; but boosting it again after, I'm more wary of.

 

[Cheiromancer]

1. Only fighters get Weapon Specialization as a stunt. If acquired as a class ability or a feat it applies to just one weapon, as usual.

2. One more stunt and one less feat. Folks will still be working on their Whirlwind Attack or Archery Feat trees, so no big worry.

3. The Weapon Mastery stunt could still provide a +1/+1 to attack and damage.

4. You could rewrite GWF and GWS as stunts. Or you could let them stay as feats.

5. I think a fighter will only use two or three weapons regularly. A melee weapon, a ranged weapon, and maybe a reach weapon. If the change allows a fighter to use his feats with 4 or 5 weapons instead,... well, I'm not sure if there is a problem.

Of course, there is a point where enough small increases in power _do_ become a problem. That point could well be between your design and my proposal. Someone would have to playtest it and see, especially in the 4-10 level range. Above that range I am confident that Clerics, Wizards and Sorcerers start to zoom ahead in power, and giving a few stunts to the fighter will not change that very much. But in the in-between levels,... who knows?

 

[OfRiceAndHen]

I'm also using this Ftr variant in my game, and I must say I'm very thankful for a core fighter class that isn't so dull, Thx!

 

[Epinephrine]

Excellent stuff. I'm yoinking it for use in my campaign as well, with a few minor tweaks. It really gives the fighter a good reason not to multiclass after he has all the feats he wants, and in doing so the abilities gained can be just as strong as those found in PrCs. I really like the concept.

 

[Ferret]

How would it affect the class if stunt chains were made, and if more stunts were added?

 

[Gez]

I wanted to avoid making chains for stunts. It's a stylistic decision, to move them apart from feats. You're free to do what you want of course.

The addition of new stunts should not affect the class' balance very much, unless those new options are themselves unbalanced. Feel free to propose new ideas.

 

[Jens]

Table: The Fighter
	Base 
	Attack	Fort	Ref	Will 
Level	Bonus	Save	Save	Save	Special
App	+0	+2	+0	+0	Bonus feat
1st	+1	+2	+0	+0

I just noticed that you have moved the 1st level bonus feat to a new 'Apprentice' level? This is interesting. Can/must the apprentice level be taken when multiclassing? What else is gained as an apprentice?

Some time ago I considered moving some 'background' abilities (most weapon and armor proficiencies, some 1st-level abilities depending on clas) to an apprentice level which 1st-level characters would be consided to have taken. The point should be that those abilities would not normally be gained from simple multiclassing; the rogue who takes a fighter level whould not suddenly be proficient with all armors, shields, and martial weapons.

In addition to XP as normal (or maybe instead of it), I imagined that the apprentice level should 'cost' actual apprenticeship or at least a significant amount of time. Maybe you have worked out such a system?

I imagined the apprentice level giving armor/weapon proficiencies, the extra skill points of 1st character level, no BAB, a few HPs to warrior-types only (all characters would have a racial HD). All of this should be moved from 1st level along with some special abilities to 'balance' the classes.

Ah - I mostly just want to hear how your apprentice level works. The class looks pretty good

 

[Gez]

The apprentice level is merely a thing from the DMG. Well, the 3.0 DMG, as it has been cut from the revised DMG. It's only purpose is to allow first-level multiclass characters. It's an optional rule whose influence is only felt at level 1.

I use it when making tables mostly because it helps in creating consistant formulaic progressions for abilities (so, first level and every even level becomes every even level, since 0 is even).

Feel free to ignore it -- for all characters except 1st-level multiclass, the apprentice and 1st levels are bundled together.

As a house-rule, I sometimes use it also for underage NPCs.

 

[neelum]

sorry, double posted and can't figure out how to delete.

 

[neelum]

Hey there Gez,
First of all, I want to let you know that I really like the versatility this variant fighter offers.
I showed it to my DM, however, and two minutes later, he said "to much that you can powergame with." So, of course I asked how, and this is one example. human, your variant, let's go with level twelve.
Ok, this gives us 8 bonus feats, including extra feat at creation as a human, or 6 feats and 2 stunts, in addition to 5 feats from leveling (for a total of 13 stunts and feats combo). Let's assume a high dex warrior, so he takes weapon finesse, for times when he has a light weapon to utilize to it's max, and weapon focus great sword, because those are just good.Then at level 4, he specializes in Greatsword. Now let's go for monkey grip because he wants a shield as well. These Are the important ones in the beginning, then you can fill others up with the power attack cleave tree ar even two hand fighting tree (actually you can take power attack, cleave, and the three two weapon fighting feats to fill up to level 12 feat potential). At eighth level, he takes the graceful combat stunt. Then at 9th greater weapon focus greatsword, and at twelve of course We take twin weapon stunt, Buy a second great sword, and there is a feat here to spare as well, so take greater weapon spec greatsword.
Ok, so now we have a very dextrous fighter wielding two greatswords, one handed, with little or no penalty (depending on the feat tree he took), and potentially power attacking like mad. Since he focused on dex, he has potentially good ac as well. Then at 16 he could take flurry of strikes, which gives him extra attacks, with a small penalty, but his attack bonus should be able to support it. Or he could take Weapon mastery, which adds more attack bonus. Obviously you will have dex bonus, magical enhancements, and such to add, so my DM feels this is a slightly broken path.
If I did my math right, the six attacks at 2d6 damge each (again assuming the lvl 12 fighter) are at +16, +11, +6, +16, +6, and -4. I am assuming a good dex, but lets say it is 18 so +4 on each, and let's assume +2 straight enhancements on each sword. I don't think 22,17,12,22,12,2 is bad at leve 12. If first five hit, you have base damage well into the thirties, before magic bonuses, ability bonuses and whatnot. I think an average round of damage for this would be around 60 or so, let's not think about crits. I know some of this doesn't sound too bad, but throw in power attack, and crits and you are dealing a lot for your level, I think. So this is the first way he thought of breaking this combination, and honestly he came up with two more, but this is only one i could remeber.
If I have made any math mistakes or blunders in using your alternate progression, please do correct me. As I said, I liked your variant, but as it stands, my DM won't let it fly. :\