Abilities in exchange for Experience points: Good or Bad Idea.

[The Proconsul]

One could also argue along these lines:

There's no real difference between XP and gp. You get XP when "solving" an encounter. You get gp when ... tada ... solving an encounter. So, really, the difference between the two is what you can spend the two on: gp for equipment, XP for levels and hence abilities. So, it is not unbalancing to rule that you can buy seperate abilities by spending individual xp - as long as you get a +1 ECL as soon as the spent XP would allow you to advance a level.

The only difference to the core rules is that between levels, unspent xp is not necessarily just sitting around. And you get different abilities whether you advance a level or buy abilities one-by-one.

 

[drdevoid]

I like the idea of XP for abilities. It's great for a character who wants a certain ability and will make an XP or even an XP and feat investment to get it. This works particularly well for spellcasters without multiclassing and slowing his spellcasting ability too greatly.

Templates, Race levels, Prestige Classes and Races as well as Multiclassing are neat options but sometimes you just want a vanilla class with that one extra ability. Maybe you (as player or GM) don't feel like creating or asking for a whole new core class to accomplish this or using non core sources. Wouldn't this be the next best thing. The ECL solution is perfect for determining the power level and keeping the player happy.

As for the abuse issues, if you think it's bound to be abused don't allow it, simple as that. If you're a player and you are wondering if you are abusing ask yourself the basic RP questions regarding why you want 'X' and consult your GM about it.

In the end it's cool vs. kewl, if you catch my drift. I could say 'options not restrictions' (say the mantra, know the mantra, be the mantra) but I'd rather say this falls under cool.

Cool stuff rules!

 

[Geoff Watson]

In Hong's game, he has a system for imbuing magic items using XP. This is only allowed for permanent constant (or at will) items, and only the imbuer can use it.
This is mainly to reduce the looting mentality for the PCs, and allow them to get magic items without needing huge piles of treasure.
He has a limit on imbued items (the suggested wealth by level table, with no more than half for any one item).

It works quite well.

Geoff.

 

[kreynolds]

What's the difference between that and a one level prestige class?

One is one level. The other isn't.

Because it's more cafeteria style where you can pick from an assortment?

The first is indeed more cafeteria style. However, the article in Dragon Mag suggested that the DM could limit the available options in much the same way you limit magic items. For example, the suggestion of certain "recipes" would make it quite controllable, though not as fluid.

That's why I ultimately decided to go another direction, though I still haven't dismissed it outright. I see some use for the first method yet, albeit in a limited fashion.

Why not create a prestige class with no pre-reqs that you can take multiple levels of, and at each level you get to choose from a platter of special abilities?

Essentially, that's what the first option is. The Dragon article presented "Foci". They're paths that you choose. They work similar to feats in that they are set up like a tree. You start with one and work your way down. Its not very fluid though.

In the end, I far prefer the concept of a "prestige race". Its set up just like a prestige class. You can find one example of my idea over in House Rules. You don't even use ECLs. Not really. You basically end up being something like this...Barbarian 10/Fighter 2/Flame Freak 3.

 

[hong]

In Hong's game, he has a system for imbuing magic items using XP. This is only allowed for permanent constant (or at will) items, and only the imbuer can use it.
This is mainly to reduce the looting mentality for the PCs, and allow them to get magic items without needing huge piles of treasure.
He has a limit on imbued items (the suggested wealth by level table, with no more than half for any one item).

It works quite well.

There's one more benefit. I can use the exact same rules for NPCs, and not have to worry about the cardinal rule: never give an NPC an item you don't want the PCs to have.

 

[Li Shenron]

A number of books out there (Quintessential Fighter, Path of the Sword and the Legend of the Five Rings) have introduced the idea of feat-like abilities in exchange for spending experience points.

Mongoose in the Quint Fighter calls them 'Fighting Styles'. Fantasy Flight Games has the concept of Legendary classes.

The question is if this is good idea for the game. I'm very suspicious of anything that bypasses the leveling mechanism in this fashion. If my players really demanded something like this I might go for a compromise. If you want to use one of these special abilities then it is going to cost you experience points EVERY time you use that ability.

So, what do people think about these mechanics?

I agree with Kenjib. The CORE mechanic of advancing in levels is exactly opposite to this variant: you get XPs and when you have enough of them you get new abilities, but you don't "go back" in XPs again, that is you don't "spend" or "lose" them.

This variant is otherwise perfectly in line with the kind of RPG which is ability-based and not level-based (or class-based); I have been playing long ago something like that and it works perfectly fine: you don't talk about classes and levels, you spend your xps (or whatever you call them) in improvements and new abilities. But it is absolutely wrong to mix up the 2 systems.

You want an ability which is not granted by your class advancement? Multiclass, get a feat (maybe invent a new feat), get a PrCl or just ask your DM for a variation to the class as the DMG suggests. But if you use this variant within the core rules it will mess up the whole game (of course a couple of abilities won't spoil the game, i mean if you use it regularly).

Levels won't mean ANYTHING anymore: if you want to play without levels then it's fine, but in that case play ALL based on "spend xp to buy abilities" and forget about levels, it's the 2 things together as a regular basis that don't match.

Yes, the CR system would be totally spoiled (not that it's perfect now... ). What if you meet an evil NPC who has spent 20.000Xp to get goodies and is still Commoner1, would you mind to take so little reward in defeating him? And please, if you are going to count current Xp + spent Xp to calculate average party level or npc CR, you are just going back to where you started, which is the normal level based game we all play, plus some DM-approved modification to the class or custom feats.

 

[hong]

Re: Re: Abilities in exchange for Experience points: Good or Bad Idea.

I agree with Kenjib. The CORE mechanic of advancing in levels is exactly opposite to this variant: you get XPs and when you have enough of them you get new abilities, but you don't "go back" in XPs again, that is you don't "spend" or "lose" them.

Item creation is, effectively, spending XP (and gp) to gain new abilities.

 

[nharwell]

I worked on creating rules to allow people to spend xp to buy stats, new spell-casting ability, skills, feats, attack bonus, etc. Then Mutants & Masterminds came out and my problem was solved!

Suggestion: mixing the standard level-based system with powers for xp points is not a good idea. If you really want that sort of system, move ENTIRELY to one, ala M&M or GURPS.

Still, if you can meld something into your existing game, you can go for it. But every game I've seen that tried to allow spending xp for abilities while sticking with the standard level-based D&D ran into serious balance problems later on...

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Abilities in exchange for Experience points: Good or Bad Idea.

...that is you don't "spend" or "lose" them.

You do in fact spend them and you do in fact lose them. Say you're 1st level. You have 999 XP. I give you 2XP. You now have a total of 1001XP, and you're now 2nd level. But, out of that 1001XP, 1000 of it is now gone. You spent it. On what? A second class level. You can't use it for items. You can't use it for wish. You can't use it for prestige race modifications. You can't use it for anything. The only XP you ever have to spend is the XP between levels. That's it.

 

[Steverooo]

Level Drain, etc.

Two points not addressed, yet:

First, a character with more skills isn't as powerful as one of a higher level without the Feats. BAB, saves, caster level, and a lot of other things don't scale up when you're spending XP on Feats. HP don't (excluding Toughness).

Secondly, XP-bought abilities are immune to level draining attacks!