Ability Dependency/Importance

[marleykat]

I'd like to see two scores be primary for martial classes excluding the Paladin and Ranger which should have three scores to balance on like primary magic user classes. That automatically starts erasing the QW/LF issue at the beginning.

Basically take a page out of Fantasy Craft's book and do the above with setting up character generation to be weighted to scores between 10-14 and penalizing specialist builds and rewarding the Generalist build.

 

[Ratskinner]

I'd like to see D&D make it possible for a low-Str, high-Int fighter to shine as brightly as a low-Int, high-Str fighter.

I'd love to see a system wherein each class could be effective regardless of where their high stats are; it would allow a great deal more of "roll stats in order" without taking away most of the players' ability to choose what they want to play.

I agree. I think the only (easy/simple) way to do this is to divorce ability scores from combat stats (almost) entirely. This would also solve the "balance among the three pillars" issue. If your Strength is irrelevant next to your three levels of fighter, then there is no need to worry about making Charisma a "dump stat". You can be the charming charismatic fighter just by putting your high score in Charisma, and it doesn't hurt you at all.

I know it sounds nuts, especially given DnD's history, but I've played it with some indie systems and it actually works rather nicely. It makes "balance" much more achievable right out of the box. Of course, those systems are much simpler than I expect the full-blown 5e to be. Nonetheless, it would make a very simple core rule and easily be modded by in with an "Ability Scores Count" module.

All that said, I won't be holding my breath.

 

[kitsune9]

The middle two. Each class should be dependent on at least two abilities to do its job, but every low ability should have important consequences to all classes.

Definitely agree with this.

 

[triqui]

Stats should matter - but not much. An 18 strength fighter should be better than a 10 strength fighter, but a 10 strength fighter should be viable. OD&D got that right. Abilities should max out at with a +3 bonus at 18.

The question is...
Should a 18 STR 10 DEX 10 CON 10 fighter be better than a 14 STR 14 DEX 14 CON fighter? In my opinion, it shouldn't. But he is.

Currently in 4e is perfectly possible to be a lvl 30 character with 18 in every stat. That is, a perfect human being. But it would be incredible bad compared to a character that maxes just one / two stats and keep everything else at a bare minimum. I'd like the game would not work that way.

 

[triqui]

Not too shabby thinking there. One of the things that really broke in 4e was when stats other than the primary contributed to the d20 roll. Its one thing to add (say) 6 points to damage. Its a big number, but its not back breaking

Its an entirely different thing to a 6 to you chance to hit. That changes everything.

I do see where you are coming from with this. Divorcing stat bonus from d20 rolls will never happen (been there for too long) but its an interesting thought what you could do with game design if you could.

Another way to do it is making to-hit and damage dependant of different stats. For example, if you make Dex the ability to *hit* in combat, with Str being the ability to *damage* in combat, you reduce the power of a single ability score.

Missile weapons and light weapons (like fencing and daggers) might use Dex to hit and wisdom/intelligence to damage for example.

Spellcasting might use Int "to hit" and Wis to damage, or whatever other combination needed.

 

[Dausuul]

Ability and class mechanics should be entirely separated. Your attack and damage rolls, for example, would be dictated by your class, level, and choice of weapons/spells. Use ability scores only for skills and secondary mechanics like encumbrance.

 

[Mokona]

Ability and class mechanics should be entirely separated. Your attack and damage rolls, for example, would be dictated by your class, level, and choice of weapons/spells. Use ability scores only for skills and secondary mechanics like encumbrance.

Agreed. Ability scores are flavor.

Ability scores represent skill checks. Some fighters are good at strength skill checks and others are good at dexterity skill checks. Thus, not every fighter is only skilled at strength tasks.

Give weapons more variety by letting the weapon choice dictate "how" you do damage.

 

[Minigiant]

Ability and class mechanics should be entirely separated. Your attack and damage rolls, for example, would be dictated by your class, level, and choice of weapons/spells. Use ability scores only for skills and secondary mechanics like encumbrance.

Agreed. Ability scores are flavor.

Ability scores represent skill checks. Some fighters are good at strength skill checks and others are good at dexterity skill checks. Thus, not every fighter is only skilled at strength tasks.

Give weapons more variety by letting the weapon choice dictate "how" you do damage.

Interesting but I don't think that'll ever be the core of any version of D&D.

Strength will be linked to melee, Dexterity with ranged, Intelligences with wizard spells, and Wisdom with clerics.

 

[Doug McCrae]

One option would be to give PCs with high MAD classes higher stats. So a monk just gets better stats than a wizard.

This would give a high degree of cross-edition customisation. It's easy to mess with the value of stats, harder to mess with what stats do.

 

[Minigiant]

One option would be to give PCs with high MAD classes higher stats. So a monk just gets better stats than a wizard.

This would give a high degree of cross-edition customisation. It's easy to mess with the value of stats, harder to mess with what stats do.

I find this interesting.

A 100% SAD class like a wizard gets no ability bonus as they only care about Int.

Dual stat "A" style classes like the Fighter and Barbarian gets a Str bonus and is tweaked by whatever his second highest ability.

Dual stat "V" style classes like Rangers and Warlocks would get bonuses to 2 abilities.

The Super MAD classes like Paladins and Monks would get a bonus to all their ability scores due to their blessing or meditation.

Ranger: Combat Style: +1 to Any two Str, Dex, Wis, and Cha
Fighter: Strength Training: +2 to Str
Paladin: Divine Blessing: +1 to All Ability Scores
Warlock: Warlock Pact- Infernal +1 to Con and Int, Fey +1 to Cha and Int, Star +1 to Con and Cha, Dark +1 to Con and Dex...