D&D 5E About Rolling for Ability Scores

[the Jester]

If you don't use feats, roll for stats any way you like.

But if you do use feats, I VERY STRONGLY advise you to not allow starting scores above 15 before racial modifiers.

Feel free to still use random rolls, as long as there is no way to roll a 16 or higher.

You'll thank me later...

Totally disagree. I use feats and use ONLY random rolls for stat generation in my campaign, and it's been a blast so far, with pcs of (a little, not really) widely differing stat levels all being fun to DM and for the players.

 

[JamesonCourage]

Pretty civil so far, for a discussion we've had a billion times. Good on the posters here

Note: I'm using my own RPG, not D&D 5e.

I just started a group for four brand-new RPGers. When they wanted to generate stats, I offered them four choices:
(1) Basic rolling method. It's my own, but it's the standard "gamble for higher or lower stats" dynamic many of us are used to.
(2) Array. I offer 20 arrays (that I made myself with the point-buy method). Players can pick one or roll 1d20 (just to add a bit of randomness).
(3) Point Buy. You have points. Stats cost points. You buy stats.
(4) Rolling subtraction method. This is the "balanced rolling" route. Basically, you roll a stat, subtract it from a specified number, and that leftover number is also one of your stats. For example, if you rolled a 10, you'd subtract it from 27, and get 17. So you'd get a 10 and 17. (My RPG assumes about a +9 starting character.)

My players (all brand new to tabletop RPGs) chose the array. All four of them. Two rolled, two picked. I thought that was really interesting.

 

[aramis erak]

I prefer point built stats, but many players prefer array (as it's easier).

I built a page for random-rolling valid point-builds ( http://aramis.hostman.us/dnd/RedrickRoller.html ) just as a lark.

I'll note that, per http://anydice.com/articles/4d6-drop-lowest/ the expected array on 4d6k3 is likely to be [16, 14, 13, 12, 10, 9].
Noting that the width of a given attribute on the points table is the modifier... 16 is 3 points above 15, and thus a 12 point atribute.
So the points array for the expected result on 4d6k3 is [12,7,5,4,2,1]=31, while standard build is 27 from [15,14,13,12,10,8] = [9,7,5,4,2,0] = 27pt


I disallow standard rolls because the are superior on the averages. The game is balanced for 27 point characters.

 

[Bacon Bits]

We used to roll stats. Then we played 4e and rolled stats. I played a Dwarven Battlerager with 18 Str, 18 Con, and 17 Wis. It was basically impossible to kill me or get away from me. It was especially noticeable because this was all pre-MM3, or at least the modules we were running were all pre-MM3. That was pretty much the only time we played 4e with rolled stats.

That, combined with people not wanting to be restricted to the result of dice and wanting some flexibility pretty much sold us on non-random chargen.

Rolling dice is "fun" in the same sense that playing a slot machine is "fun", but we don't find that it makes a better game. Quite the opposite. Chargen itself is a bit more fun, I guess, but you also risk it being kind of depressing.

 

[Bupp]

That's a pretty good approach. A variant I've seen has everyone roll one stat, going around the table until 6 have been generated, and then everyone uses that as a standard array.

My last group did this. Three players, each rolled 2 stats, 4d6 drop lowest, and that was the array they used.

 

[Psikerlord#]

The preferred method for generating ability scores has been a topic of discussion in my group lately. Since we started playing 5e, I've mostly opted to use point-buy and allowed players to opt out and roll for their ability scores. In my next campaign, beginning this week, I've finally made the decision to outright ban random generation. I have some players upset with that, but I'm not moving back, and the group mostly supports my decision.

Anyway, after talking with other DMs and players, I decided to write about my thoughts on the matter and make it public (here), because maybe other people are interested in joining the discussion with different points of view (with or against random generation). If it reads just like a big forum post, that's probably because English is not my native language.

Cheers!

The best method in my experience (having used point buy and random) is as follows:

Everyone rolls, including the DM. Players can then choose from ANY of the arrays rolled.

Everyone gets the fun of rolling, you avoid cookie cutter PCs, and there is no high roll/low roll imbalance issues. Win Win.

 

[Coredump]

I have heard these 'complaints' before... and still don't give them much credence...

1) This is not a problem with rolling, this is a problem with the DM changing his mind. If you don't want to allow low, or high, results, then bake that into the system used. Plus getting an 18 is about 5 times more likely than that 4.
Ex: Lowest allowed is a 7, any roll below a 7 is raised to a 7, and 1 is taken off of the highest roll. (or second highest roll)
Ex: After rolling add up the bonuses (or add up the point buy costs) disallow any result that is <X or > Y
If you don't want 'fake gambling' then don't allow it, it is the DMs fault if it is happening.

2) Again, 18/00 is not 1 in a 100. First you need to get the 18, *then* its 1 in a hundred.
But beyond that, the boosts in 5E are a *lot* less of an impact than getting an 18/00. My Str 16 fighter may not be quite as good as your Str 18 or 20 fighter... but there is no 'godlike' difference. And unlike 1E, I will quickly catch up as I boost my Str. Or I can put some effort into finding Str boosting magic.
And this is really *only* a consideration if we are both playing the same class. My Int 16 wizard doesn't really care what your fighter's Str is, we get the spotlight for very different reasons.
Heck, my Str 16 Shield Master doesn't even really care about your Str 18 polearm master, since I can knock people Prone, and you can't.
You need to revisit your definition of 'godlike'

3) Similarly, you need to revisit you definition of 'sidekick'. Even with a low roll, the Wizard can put it into Str, or Cha...or even Wisdom. No need to put it into Dex or Con. Even a mediocre Dex isn't going to be a problem, 12 Dex gives a 14 AC, which is pretty darn comparable to many of the builds out there, and better than some.
There are *plenty* of ways to be a useful party member with "only" a 14 as a main stat. Nothing as minor as a +1 or +2 is going to make that much of a difference in a character.

4)Your own example ruins your point. If you get a Belt of Giant Str, it doesn't matter what your starting stats were.
Yes it is still a decent percentage at lvl 20, but it is also capped, so its fairly easy to 'catch up' by then also. And with 5Es bounded accuracy, it means you are still going to be hitting plenty as you get to lvl 20. If you have a 14 Str, it just means you hit 20 at lvl 8 instead of lvl 6. Stat bonuses are nice, but they are minor compared to the power of class features and other character choices. We have two paladins, one is much more powerful than the other.... they used point buy.

5) You didn't bother to cover any of the reasons people *like* to roll. Personally, I like it because it lets me feel like I am playing an actual person, point buy makes me feel like I am designing an android. I also like it because it makes the character more unique, no one else is going to be playing a fighter with the same stats I have, this is *my* character. With point buy, its likely the fighter next to you has the exact same stats.... or at least the fighter next to him.

 

[TarionzCousin]

5) You didn't bother to cover any of the reasons people *like* to roll. Personally, I like it because it lets me feel like I am playing an actual person, point buy makes me feel like I am designing an android.

So... what if you're in a Sci Fi game playing an android?

Starting stat methods have always been problematic since they introduced options. In OD&D and 1E we rolled 3d6 in order... and we hated it--but there was nothing else, initially.

I think that this is a case, like many others, where different groups are happy with different methods and and no particular method is explicitly badwrongfun.

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

The best method in my experience (having used point buy and random) is as follows:

Everyone rolls, including the DM. Players can then choose from ANY of the arrays rolled.

Everyone gets the fun of rolling, you avoid cookie cutter PCs, and there is no high roll/low roll imbalance issues. Win Win.

My main problem with rolling for ability scores is the issue of fairness within the party. I believe that any method that preserves it, even if it unbalances the encounters in the party's direction, is good enough. The fact that four of my six players greatly prefer it probably weights in for point-buy in my group. Personally, I think I'd prefer standard array to everything else.

 

[Crothian]

I did a one shot a few weeks ago to experiment with a different system. I made attributes a zero sum game. If you wanted a strength that was 4 points over average then someone else had to have a strength that was four points below average. I did say 12 was average just to see how well it would work. It was interesting from my point of view but I'm not sure the players really like it.