D&D 5E Absorb Elements, Shield Master, and Reactions for Saves

[Pickaxe]

Let’s say an eldritch knight is hit with a fireball. The character has the Shield Master feat and the Absorb Elements spell. The feat allows them to take no damage if they save, while the spell gives them resistance to the damage. Both features require a reaction. Does the EK have to choose which option to use before making the save, or can they use their reaction after rolling the save, in which case they would use the feat if they save and the spell if they don’t?

As a more general question, if you are reacting to something that requires a save, do you use your reaction prior to or after the roll?

Axe

 

[mortwatcher]

I would probably guide this the same as rogues uncanny dodge and let them make an informed decision afterwards and narrate to taste

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It depends on the exact text of the ability that is triggering the reaction. So, for Absorb Elements it triggers "when you take damage". That would be AFTER you make your saving throw. Shield master triggers when you "succeed on your saving throw".

So, the most likely sequence of events would be

1) Make save.
2) If save is successful, use Shield Master. You take no damage.
3) If Save fails cast Absorb Elements. Take half damage.

 

[neogod22]

Let’s say an eldritch knight is hit with a fireball. The character has the Shield Master feat and the Absorb Elements spell. The feat allows them to take no damage if they save, while the spell gives them resistance to the damage. Both features require a reaction. Does the EK have to choose which option to use before making the save, or can they use their reaction after rolling the save, in which case they would use the feat if they save and the spell if they don’t?

As a more general question, if you are reacting to something that requires a save, do you use your reaction prior to or after the roll?

Axe

Yes, that's the point of reactions and bonus actions, you only get one, so you have to select the best one for your situation.

 

[neogod22]

It depends on the exact text of the ability that is triggering the reaction. So, for Absorb Elements it triggers "when you take damage". That would be AFTER you make your saving throw. Shield master triggers when you "succeed on your saving throw".

So, the most likely sequence of events would be

1) Make save.
2) If save is successful, use Shield Master. You take no damage.
3) If Save fails cast Absorb Elements. Take half damage.

This is wrong, you habe to make the decision to cast the spell before the save. This is a reaction. You have to choose one or the other. If it were an ongoing effect like fire shield, sure you can use shield master, and of thst fails you still have resistance. With 2 different reactions, it's one or the other, not both.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

This is wrong, you habe to make the decision to cast the spell before the save.

No you don't. The spell text says "when you take damage". Depending on the spell and your other abilities, you may take no damage if you save, which would mean you cannot cast the spell.

This is a reaction. You have to choose one or the other.

No. The text for Shield Master say it triggers if your saving throw succeeds. If you fail your save you CANNOT use Shield Master.

 

[RSIxidor]

This is wrong, you habe to make the decision to cast the spell before the save. This is a reaction. You have to choose one or the other. If it were an ongoing effect like fire shield, sure you can use shield master, and of thst fails you still have resistance. With 2 different reactions, it's one or the other, not both.

You're misunderstanding. They aren't saying to use two separate reactions, they are saying to decide between the two reactions which have different timing in their triggers, and that the decision to use Shield Master comes before the decision to use Absorb Elements.

 

[Salthorae]

@Paul Farquhar has the right of it here.

If Shield Master's trigger language was "when you take damage" (for some reason) then you'd have to choose which to use right after failing your save.

Absorb Element's trigger language is that way because there are many spells that deal energy damage that doesn't require a save, so a save isn't a good trigger for that reaction.

That portion of Shield Master ONLY helps on the assumption that you've made your saving throw and would normally take half on a successful save, but now you're hunkered behind your shield instead.

They make sense and they are different points in the decision tree after a saving throw that deals elemental damage even on a successful save is made by a PC.

 

[neogod22]

You're misunderstanding. They aren't saying to use two separate reactions, they are saying to decide between the two reactions which have different timing in their triggers, and that the decision to use Shield Master comes before the decision to use Absorb Elements.

Im not misunderstanding anything. You are trying to use wording to cheat. The action economy is a reaction, you have to choose the reaction before you roll the dice. I don't care what the flavor text says, because that's all it is. The action economy says one reaction per round. If you are DMing, and you want you players to abuse this, fine run your games as you see fit. But otherwise, you can't do both, you have to choose before the dice roll.

 

[Salthorae]

Im not misunderstanding anything. You are trying to use wording to cheat. The action economy is a reaction, you have to choose the reaction before you roll the dice. I don't care what the flavor text says, because that's all it is. The action economy says one reaction per round. If you are DMing, and you want you players to abuse this, fine run your games as you see fit. But otherwise, you can't do both, you have to choose before the dice roll.

From the PHB

Certain special abilities, spells, and situations allow you to take a special action called a reaction. A reaction is an instant response to a trigger of some kind, which can occur on your turn ar on someone else's

You chose your reaction at the triggering condition time. Not before. Choosing Absorb elements or Shield Master before you roll a save is incorrect because rolling a save is NOT the trigger condition noted in the spell or feat.

Shield Master and Absorb elements both have different trigger conditions that happen to allow for a decision tree for a PC that has both. It’s not cheating, it’s RAW.