D&D 5E Absorb Elements, Shield Master, and Reactions for Saves

[5ekyu]

Im not misunderstanding anything. You are trying to use wording to cheat. The action economy is a reaction, you have to choose the reaction before you roll the dice. I don't care what the flavor text says, because that's all it is. The action economy says one reaction per round. If you are DMing, and you want you players to abuse this, fine run your games as you see fit. But otherwise, you can't do both, you have to choose before the dice roll.

Nobody said you can do both. This has not bedn about "can I do two reactions" but about "when do I have to choose" between the two options. Its not cheating

 

[ad_hoc]

You get to choose after the Saving Throw. Technically Shield Master comes first but they both happen after the Saving Throw has occurred so it doesn't matter.

Im not misunderstanding anything. You are trying to use wording to cheat. The action economy is a reaction, you have to choose the reaction before you roll the dice. I don't care what the flavor text says, because that's all it is. The action economy says one reaction per round. If you are DMing, and you want you players to abuse this, fine run your games as you see fit. But otherwise, you can't do both, you have to choose before the dice roll.

There is no such thing as 'flavour text' separate from the rules. They're all rules.

 

[neogod22]

You get to choose after the Saving Throw. Technically Shield Master comes first but they both happen after the Saving Throw has occurred so it doesn't matter.



There is no such thing as 'flavour text' separate from the rules. They're all rules.

You allowed to choose whatever you want to do until you roll dice. Once you decide to roll dice you're committed. If the shield master ability didn't have an action economy, sure you could do both but since it does, you have to choose.

If you need an explanation on why, a round takes six seconds. In those six seconds, you move, take your bonus action to shield bash if you're a shield master, use you action to take multiple attacks, and use a reaction. You don't get to use infinite bonus actions and reactions just because you have more than one option. It's in the rules under reactions.

 

[ad_hoc]

You allowed to choose whatever you want to do until you roll dice. Once you decide to roll dice you're committed. If the shield master ability didn't have an action economy, sure you could do both but since it does, you have to choose.

If you need an explanation on why, a round takes six seconds. In those six seconds, you move, take your bonus action to shield bash if you're a shield master, use you action to take multiple attacks, and use a reaction. You don't get to use infinite bonus actions and reactions just because you have more than one option. It's in the rules under reactions.

Again, you're misunderstanding the question in the OP.

 

[neogod22]

If you took 18 lvls of fighter amd 2 levels of paladin, you habe the ability to use 7 smites in a round, possibly 8 or 9 because smite has no action economy, and neither does action surge, but everything with an action economy. There's nowhere in the rules that says you can take 2 reactions in a round. You choose your reaction, and you take the results.

 

[neogod22]

Again, you're misunderstanding the question in the OP.

Wrong, you either haven't read the Player's Handbook, and don't know the rules of combat, or you're purposely trying to misinform people to cheat.

 

[Salthorae]

If you took 18 lvls of fighter amd 2 levels of paladin, you habe the ability to use 7 smites in a round, possibly 8 or 9 because smite has no action economy, and neither does action surge, but everything with an action economy. There's nowhere in the rules that says you can take 2 reactions in a round. You choose your reaction, and you take the results.

No one is saying take 2 reactions.

Reactions have trigger conditions. You don't have to choose whether to take a reaction until that trigger condition occurs.

Rolling a d20 is not a trigger condition for either Absorb Elements or Shield Master's ability. Therefore you don't have to choose to use either until after the d20 is rolled AND you know the result. You can't choose to use Shield Master until you know that you've saved.

you can use your reaction to take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw,

So you need to know if you've succeeded before you decide on shield master, otherwise there is 0 point.

Absorb Elements similarly says "when you take damage" as it's trigger condition. So you don't have to decide on it until you've taken damage.

If you roll and fail, you can't use shield master, but you can use Absorb Elements. If you succeed, then you could decide to use shield master OR absorb elements OR neither. PC's choice.

The language on this isn't that complicated.

Wrong, you either haven't read the Player's Handbook, and don't know the rules of combat, or you're purposely trying to misinform people to cheat.

Your replies in here are incredibly strong. No one is purposely trying to get people to cheat.

You are seeming to be misreading or misunderstanding how reactions work.

 

[Pickaxe]

To clarify, I do understand that you only get one reaction per round. In fact, that was what prompted my question regarding two features that both use reactions triggered by similar events. The responses spelling out the trigger condition language make a compelling argument that the feat and the spell have independent triggers that don’t precede a saving throw roll. Thanks for the help with this!

 

[RSIxidor]

Wrong, you either haven't read the Player's Handbook, and don't know the rules of combat, or you're purposely trying to misinform people to cheat.

You should probably read it a few more times. Both of these are definitely reactions where the decision to use them comes after the dice are rolled. Read the triggers again for the feat and spell. Those triggers make no sense if you have to choose them before the dice roll.

They are reactions because you are reacting to the specific trigger. In both of these features cases, the triggers are not the saving throw itself but something you would only have the knowledge to act on after the result of the saving thrown is known.

 

[neogod22]

You should probably read it a few more times. Both of these are definitely reactions where the decision to use them comes after the dice are rolled. Read the triggers again for the feat and spell. Those triggers make no sense if you have to choose them before the dice roll.

They are reactions because you are reacting to the specific trigger. In both of these features cases, the triggers are not the saving throw itself but something you would only have the knowledge to act on after the result of the saving thrown is known.

So if a bonus action like shield bash says "you can do it as a bonus action when you make a melee attack" and you use the bonus action before you make the melee attack, by your logic, does this mean you still have the opportunity to cast a spell instead based off the result if the shield bash?