Abstract Wealth Systems - yes or no?

[Mercule]

IMO, it depends on the genre, even subgenre. A dungeon-delving game of D&D, I think, is better played with specific wealth, while the political intrigues of Vampire work well with abstract wealth.

I think it comes down to whether there is an assumption of "off camera" income and/or having a wide variance in "loot" being a balance issue between PCs. In the former case, having abstract income that is effectively perpetual means that it would be pointless to track each tiny gold piece. For the latter, take D&D, where a penniless 20th level fighter is at a significant disadvantage against a 10th level fighter with 1,000,000 gp. Stuff needs to be tracked, maybe not to the copper, but it does need to be tallied.

I could envision a fantasy game that used abstract wealth. It would probably be much more focused on politics than on dungeon crawling, though. Likewise, I think a post-apocalyptic "modern" game, would be better served by strong accounting.

 

[Arnwyn]

So, what are your thoughts on this? Do you prefer abstract wealth systems or not? And if so, why?

I despise abstract wealth systems, and would never use one for any game I run.

But then, I'm an accountant in real life.

 

[punkorange]

I think I might be tempted to use it in my current game, which is basically UE in a western style setting. No guns, still swords and magic, but other than that it's pretty much straight up sphegetti western.

 

[Aus_Snow]

So, what are your thoughts on this? Do you prefer abstract wealth systems or not?

Having tried both, albeit mainly the concrete (as opposed to the abstract), I have only confirmed my earlier suspicion: I strongly dislike abstract wealth systems.

I recognise the need for various things to be abstracted away in RPG's. No problem. However, when certain RPG abstractions start to detract from the capacity for immersion (in myself and in others) I start to take a hard look at those rules, and twist them or pitch them.

 

[FireLance]

I am really intrigued by the idea of using a wealth system for my D&D game. What book should I look at for a good system that would take little modification to use in a D&D game.

The system my group uses is basically to reset the characters' equipment value each time they gain a level to the standard wealth for a PC of his new level. For example, when a 1st-level fighter becomes 2nd level, he loses his existing equipment and gains 900 gp of whatever new equipment he wants. This could be a masterwork greatsword (350 gp), a suit of banded mail (250 gp), a Str 12 composite longbow (200 gp), a potion of cure light wounds (50 gp), ammunition, and other miscellaneous gear. It's worked pretty well for us so far.

 

[engrishonly]

No. D&D is about killing things and taking their stuff, so there should be a detailed system for "stuff."

Right, and that's why the abstracted wealth works great for Exalted - it's less based on "taking their stuff", generally speaking.

D&D is just generally more materialistic that way, not that it's a bad thing. Perhaps as a scion of a great House in Eberron, your personal wealth is immaterial and can be abstracted... but for the average starting adventurer who doesn't have an Exalted Charm to do some insane thing with the wave of a hand, having exactly a fist-full of coins and knowing what that means is more useful... more interesting.

Money is worth keeping track of in small amounts when you don't have money because you can track your level of achievement in more interesting ways... and when you have money or power in great amounts, then money is the least of your concern (and worth abstracting).

 

[FireLance]

I despise abstract wealth systems, and would never use one for any game I run.

But then, I'm an accountant in real life.

Heh. I once did a small write-up on abstracting equipment in minor ways (adventurer's packs, supplementary income, ignore incidental expenses) entitled "I'm an adventurer, not an accountant!"

 

[Bloodstone Press]

In my experience abstract wealth systems make things more difficult. I like to know specifics when it comes to the PC's resources.

 

[luke_twigger]

A long time in the past, as long ago as AD&D rather than 3.x now I think about it, we used a semi-abstract wealth system. For whatever reason we no longer use it, possibly due to the adoption of electronic character sheets which makes accounting easier (for both cash and encumbrance). But anyway...

Each PC gained wealth in the usual fashion. Then at the start of each game-month we crossed off something like 50gp/level for "expenses". Whenever a PC needed to buy a day-to-day* item of reasonable* price, they just added it to their character sheet without worrying about exact prices (assuming they were in a town, not the middle of the wilderness obviously).

So we still got to save up treasure to spend on exciting stuff like magic swords, without needing to micro-manage subsistence costs per day and such.

* DM's discretion basically

 

[danbuter]

I hate abstract wealth systems. They take away one of the coolest factors of the game for the players, i.e. collecting loot. I know what 1,000,000 gold pieces/nuyen/dollars means. I don't know what Wealth Rating 10 means.