Absurdly Foolish Question about Sorcerers

[CyberSpyder]

Alright, the fact that I can't find anywhere that this is explicitly spelled out probably just means that the answer is obvious, but I'm trying to figure out if sorcerers need the material components of spells the same as wizards do. The only reason I would think that they wouldn't is the degree to which this conflicts with their flavor as spellcasters whose power comes from within themselves . . . it just feels odd to me that they would suddenly get an intuitive sense that they can, say, reverse gravity, but only if they gather certain specific materials first. To say nothing of the spells with extremely esoteric components.

So. Sorcerers, material components - yea or nay?

 

[Olive]

Core rules: yes sorcorers need material components.

Lots of people give them the feat Eschew Materials for free. Monte Cook's alt. sor. in BoEld.Might 2 says that they substitute XP for the gp value of the material component.

 

[The Souljourner]

Bleh! Substituting XP for GP on a 1:1 ratio is TERRIBLE. Creating magic items gives the ratio of 1:12.5, which is a lot closer to what it should be.

Now for sorcerers, what that basically says is "Sorcerers will never cast a spell with any material component that costs GP." Think about it - are you going to spend 100xp to identify an item? How about 250xp for Stoneskin? Limited Wish only costs 300xp, and that's a far more powerful spell.

Sorry.. rant done now.

Yes, Sorcerers do need material components. It's perfectly acceptable to give them eschew materials for free, since most people agree they're pretty underpowered.

-The Souljourner

 

[shilsen]

Bleh! Substituting XP for GP on a 1:1 ratio is TERRIBLE. Creating magic items gives the ratio of 1:12.5, which is a lot closer to what it should be.

Now for sorcerers, what that basically says is "Sorcerers will never cast a spell with any material component that costs GP." Think about it - are you going to spend 100xp to identify an item? How about 250xp for Stoneskin? Limited Wish only costs 300xp, and that's a far more powerful spell.

Sorry.. rant done now.

I don't have the book, so I can't be sure, but I believe Monte has them use up XP for gp at the rate of 1 XP per 25 gp material cost or something similar. Not too bad.

 

[the Jester]

Yes, Sorcerers do need material components. It's perfectly acceptable to give them eschew materials for free, since most people agree they're pretty underpowered.

-The Souljourner

I agree with the Souljourner.

Except that I don't think most people agree they're underpowered. Nobody in my group thinks they're underpowered at all.

Still, for flavor, a free Eschew Materials isn't going to break anything.

 

[Michael Tree]

Bleh! Substituting XP for GP on a 1:1 ratio is TERRIBLE. Creating magic items gives the ratio of 1:12.5, which is a lot closer to what it should be.

Now for sorcerers, what that basically says is "Sorcerers will never cast a spell with any material component that costs GP." Think about it - are you going to spend 100xp to identify an item? How about 250xp for Stoneskin? Limited Wish only costs 300xp, and that's a far more powerful spell.

Sorry.. rant done now.

It's a good thing that Monte's sorcerer spends only 1xp for every 25gp then.

 

[The Souljourner]

Heh. Umm.. Yeah. Ok. Move along, nothing to see here.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

So. Sorcerers, material components - yea or nay?

Personally, I think "nay". They don't think of something like "Hey, if I eat a live spider, I think I can climb like one" all by themselves.

Personally, I see sorcerers in two ways:
1. The wild talents: As they grow more powerful, they find out about more and more magical powers they have. They should have the Eschew Materials Feat.

2. The imitators: They see other spellcasters use components (whatever they are - they see that a wizard says "mas illu" to create light, they observe that the word "ignus" combined with outstreched arms, the thumbs of both hands connected, will create a fan-shaped flame, and witness a wizard eating a live spider and climbing a wall), copy them, and imitate the spell that way. This can be a sorcerer who wanders with a wizard, or some innate talent that is sent to a wizards academy and learns much faster than the rest - and never uses a spellbook. They would use the same components as the spellcasters they observed.

If you want to give the sorcerer something extra, give the former kind of sorcerer eschew materials, and the latter one something like Spellcasting Prodigy, or one of the spellcasting traditions from Races of Faerûn. (I know many see spellcasting prodigy as too powerfull, but the new version that will be in the FRPG will be changed so the virtual ability increase only works on bonus spells, not on DC's).

 

[Spatzimaus]

Like the others have said, by the rules yes they need them, by common sense no. Frankly, though, the mechanics behind the Psion is how the Sorcerer SHOULD have been done (except for the "badly underpowered" part, I mean), and psionics don't require components (they use "displays" instead).

There were a few threads a couple months ago in the House Rules forum, on how to tweak the Sorcerer in ways that'd add flavor without breaking anything else. My favorite was to give them Eschew Materials at 1, Spell Thematics at 3, and move their Familiar to level 5. Two relatively weak, "flavor" Feats, and in exchange you move the Familiar (which tends to be a pretty good thing at low levels) to higher up.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I like to know what I do wrong: I have a psion in my party, and he's far from underpowered. In fact, his mind blast is what saved the party time and again (and really annoys me). He might not be the strongest damage dealer, but he's far from useless.