Abusing Cleave?

[Sekket]

CLEAVE [GENERAL]

Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack.

Benefit: If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it), you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach. You cannot take a 5-foot step before making this extra attack. The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature. You can use this ability once per round.

Special: A fighter may select Cleave as one of his fighter bonus feats.

So if you had an enhancement on your weapon, or a similar feat, to 'drop' the enemy you would be able to get a cleave attempt. What abilities can be used in tandem with this feat? Would a knockback weapon [what book is that from?] or a clouting [sp?] do the trick?

Dropping an enemy seems to be undefined, could knocking them away give you the same bonuses? Because then you are free to use the momentum of your weapon to hit someone else [which really seems to be the spirit of the rules behind cleave]

 

[Crothian]

nope, it mean killing an opponent or at least getting them to negative HPs

 

[Sekket]

nope, it mean killing an opponent or at least getting them to negative HPs

Yes... but...

typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it

It does say typically. What are the exceptions?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

It does say typically. What are the exceptions?

Constructs and Undead, who can't go below 0 hit points.

 

[Crothian]

if you make a creature save verse massive damage and he fails it, you can cleave off of that

 

[nute]

Reducing someone to 0 HP or killing them is not the only way to drop an enemy:

1) Your weapon has a quality that drains stats. Many stats when reduced to 0 cause the victim to drop to the ground or become comatose/unresponsive.

2) Your weapon triggers a teleport or dimension door effect, thus removing the target from melee when hit.

Some other questions and comments:

a) It doesn't say "do damage with a standard attack" - so could a Coup de Grace be followed up with a Cleave attack?

b) Cleave + iterative attacks + two-weapon fighting + Great Cleave + Combat Reflexes? Build a fighter around this particular chain, and you are DEATH to low-HD enemies en masse.

c) Cleave states "Another creature within reach", not "next to the dropped creature". So theoretically, since there's no facing in 3.5, you can use Cleave to drop the guy in front of you, then immediately spin and nail the guy who's flanking you on the other side.

It's still my favorite fighter feat.

 

[Crothian]

teleport triggers a cleave? That just doesn't seem right

 

[nute]

teleport triggers a cleave? That just doesn't seem right

Well, think about it this way - your weapon has a disintegrate effect when it hits. That'd grant you a cleave, yeah? Well, if the target vanishes by some other method, shouldn't it work the same? The enemy is no longer in front of you.

Note that this shouldn't work if the enemy has "teleport contingent on being hit with a weapon", since Cleave implies that you intend/expect to drop the opponent with a big hit and are already aiming your follow-through swing. An unexpected teleport would negate that, I think.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Drop doesn't mean "remove from combat". It means dropping them to the ground. So teleport wouldn't work, but a sleep spell might. Perhaps a Spellsword who channels Sleep through their weapon as they attack.

 

[Arbiter of Wyrms]

An opponent who has accumulated a bunch of subdual damage might be "dropped" even though it has a bunch of HP left. That would certainly offer a cleave attempt and I would say falls squarely outside of the "typical."