D&D 4E AC exists in 4e... but do Reflex Saves?

[Baby Samurai]

It's just the reverse of having a wizard say "I throw a fireball on those orcs" and the DM "sorry. missed".

I agree that for players, the more they roll the dice, the more they feel involved in the game.

Exactly, my group has been using static saves as Defences since UA (where Saga stole it from) – it makes it more proactive and fun for the player.

 

[Reaper Steve]

Assuming that they haven't made DR much more pervasive, incorporated Fortitude saves to resist damage, and all that Jazz, I think it makes sense for AC and Reflex to be distinct. I would expand the role of the latter a bit, though:

AC: defense vs. weapon (manufactured or natural) attacks
Reflex: defense against touch attacks and area effects

Both should increase with level like a saving throw. Wearing armor would then raise AC while lowering Reflex.

Man, I'm really wanting to see AC go. I like SAGA defenses, except the part where they make armor a bonus to Reflex.
Here's an easy solution that would meet my needs, which is similiar to the above suggestion:
SW SAGA Reflex, Will, and Fortitude Defenses. Armor Class would be what is added to Reflex defense against a weapon. It really becomes just a manner of semantics, but to me it's just what's needed to highlight the difference.
Then you could have:
Will Defense
Fortitude Defense
Reflex Defense
and Armored Defense (which is Reflex def + AC bonus.)

Touch attack? that's versus Reflex.
Attack that relies on physical force? that's versus Armored Defense

 

[GreatLemur]

I am strongly hoping that 4e uses Reflex Defense for regular combat, and 4e "Armor Class" is just Damage Resistance with a dead sacred cow's name slapped on it.

 

[Simplicity]

I'm pretty excited about AC going away, actually.

I could do things like:

----------------------------------------------------

DM: "You were bitten by the werewolf."

Player: "Oh CRAP! Should I roll a forti..."

DM: "No, that's alright. I've already done it for you."

Player: "..."

----------------------------------------------------

Player: "I attack the evil wizard."

DM: "Now why would you do that? He's always been so nice to you. The people in your party really are the ones who need to get a hold of themselves."

Player: "NOOOOOOOOoooooo!!!!!"

 

[JVisgaitis]

I am strongly hoping that 4e uses Reflex Defense for regular combat, and 4e "Armor Class" is just Damage Resistance with a dead sacred cow's name slapped on in.

Man, that would be awesome, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[KarinsDad]

I prefer the following:

Reflex Defense = 10 + Ability Score + Level - Armor
Damage Resistance = Armor

That way, people in klunky armor get hit more often, but take less damage per hit.

People in no armor get hit less often, but take more damage per hit.


This also has the advantage of minimizing some of those other bonuses that add to Reflex Defense (like magic and feats) by having armored people still near the 50% chance of being hit range.

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

I am strongly hoping that 4e uses Reflex Defense for regular combat, and 4e "Armor Class" is just Damage Resistance with a dead sacred cow's name slapped on it.

I believe it will as well. That's how we do it once we converted our d20 classes into SW Saga classes.

 

[Reaper Steve]

I am strongly hoping that 4e uses Reflex Defense for regular combat, and 4e "Armor Class" is just Damage Resistance with a dead sacred cow's name slapped on it.

I'd like that even better than my example. An armor class of '5/slashing' would actually fit the term as well.

 

[RithTheAwakener]

DM: "You were bitten by the werewolf."

Player: "Oh CRAP! Should I roll a forti..."

DM: "No, that's alright. I've already done it for you."

Player: "..."

That could get really fun with Disintegrate.

"He casts Disinegrate.. your character dies, tear up your character sheet please".

*edit: This is me assuming all saves will be done like the static reflex save*

 

[Bryntryst]

That could get really fun with Disintegrate.

"He casts Disinegrate.. your character dies, tear up your character sheet please".

*edit: This is me assuming all saves will be done like the static reflex save*

I'm soooooo hoping that the static saves didn't make it into 4e. The above example would make me cry.