AC per level

[Valiantheart]

Anyone have first hand experience with a game designed with one of these mixes to comment (does WoT use HP or WP/VP)?

I do. You only need to tweak how magical items give defensive bonuses and it works fine.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'm pretty confident you're right, Olgar.

Hit Points represent this 'extra AC.' If you want, you can say that instead of gaining hit points for a level, the character could gain an AC bonus....or gain it at a smiliar rate to BAB. But I would suggest lowering the hit points.

Hit points don't represent being able to take damage. They're a fatigue system, of sorts, that pools fatigue and damage and swords to the gut in the same number pool. It's quite an elegant solution, if you think about it.

 

[nharwell]

Hit points representing "fatigue" or "luck" sounds nice in theory, but that doesn't reflect the reality of the game. Otherwise, why do they recover so slowly? Should it really take days to rest to recover one's ability to dodge blows? That's neither realistic nor cinematic. Likewise, why are healing magics the primary means of recovery? And look at monsters in the MM: monsters with higher HP are "tougher"; faster, more nimble or harder-to-hit creatures are given higher ACs instead.

In effect, hit points represent physical toughness in D&D. Hit points try to serve "double duty" in D&D as both physical hardiness and luck/dodge ability -- and they do not do this well.
Star Wars and D20 Modern take slightly different approaches to fix this problem ...

 

[isoChron]

We use a house rule that, each time you get another attack, you get a +1 to your AC. A 11th level fighter (BAB +11/+6/+1) gets an AC bonus of +2, whereas a 12th level Wizard (BAB +6/+1) gets +1.
It´s not too much, but it´s a nice little extra AC boost.

Orm

Damn, he is fast ...
Yeah, we use this simple system:
First increase in iterative attacks (6/1): AC+1
Second increase in iterative attacks (11/6/1): AC+2
Third increase in iterative attacks (16/11/6/1): AC+4
This AC bonus is a dodge bonus. Every time you would lose your Dex to AC you lose this bonus, too. Very similar to dodge. Stacks with all other types of AC bonus and has no limit.
At epic levels it will increase like +1/3 level or something like that.
It's just strange that the only way for a fighter to get a better AC is to take one or two feats or, more important, buy better equipment. I think D&D is already a very equipment-heavy system. You don't have the right equipment ? You die !
Granted, this is but a small drop into an ocean but it works so far.

BYE

 

[Datt]

I really like that. Although that does gear more towards the fighter type. But I like that it stops at a +4. I wasn't really wanting something huge. I might have to talk to my DM about some sort of house rule on this.

Okay, this is slipping into House Rules. Any Mod feel free to go ahead and move it on over.

 

[isoChron]

And what I forgot to ask:
What good for are HP instead of Armor if the brick is poisoned ???
poison damage works equal on both ... (if both have the same Fortitude save, which is not the question here).

And where is the ability to parry blows completly with your weapon ? Yes, there is expertize ... INT 13+ ... a fighter with an average 10 (or even above average, 12 ) INT can't take this feat and is forever condemned to be happy with dodge (what you can get at first level ...).
Sounds not like a specialized weapon wielder of 20th level ...

We have the situation that in our group with no cleric it can take weeks to get a fighter back on his feet. (The mage is at full hp in a third of that time). So why should a fighter not be able to dodge blows more efficently at higher level ? Only to give the cleric a reason to have heal prepared all the time ?

BYE

 

[isoChron]

I really like that. Although that does gear more towards the fighter type.

Yes, that's right, but it should represent fighting capabilities. So a mage has it's spells, a fighter can rely on his own a bit more.
BYE

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Hit points representing "fatigue" or "luck" sounds nice in theory, but that doesn't reflect the reality of the game. Otherwise, why do they recover so slowly? Should it really take days to rest to recover one's ability to dodge blows? That's neither realistic nor cinematic. Likewise, why are healing magics the primary means of recovery? And look at monsters in the MM: monsters with higher HP are "tougher"; faster, more nimble or harder-to-hit creatures are given higher ACs instead.

In effect, hit points represent physical toughness in D&D. Hit points try to serve "double duty" in D&D as both physical hardiness and luck/dodge ability -- and they do not do this well.
Star Wars and D20 Modern take slightly different approaches to fix this problem ...

So, then, by this reasoning (and to use an age-old RPG argument), a fighter with 100 hit points could survive a full-body dip into molten lava simply because he is somehow physically tougher than someone with 10 hit points? That is neither realistic nor cinematic, either. Hit points have to represent more than straightforward physical toughness.

Regarding recovery - ever hear of "you've run out of luck" or "you used up one of your nine lives"? The concept of "using up" one's luck is pretty common - I mean, I've heard gamers say that their dice have used up their luck, and have to be put aside to "rest" and regain that luck. After getting either nickeled-and-dimed or hit with one big dose of damage from, say 85 hit points to, say 15 hit points, it's easy to assume that the character has been using his "spider-sense" on overtime, and is about to use it all up. Having to rest for a while, or at least get out of the line of fire, to "recharge" one's physical and non-physical damage seems reasonable to me. It may not be realistic, but this is D&D.

 

[kenjib]

So, then, by this reasoning (and to use an age-old RPG argument), a fighter with 100 hit points could survive a full-body dip into molten lava simply because he is somehow physically tougher than someone with 10 hit points?

Maybe, maybe not, but he certainly can jump off of a 200 foot cliff with almost no concern whatsoever that he will die.

Hit points are an abstract concept unique to in-game reality that can't be rationalized with real world analogue. They don't make sense. They don't have to though, if they work well enough to have a good time. IMO the "luck, dodging, skill, etc." argument is almost as badly flawed as the physical punishment argument.

 

[Negative Zero]

So, then, by this reasoning (and to use an age-old RPG argument), a fighter with 100 hit points could survive a full-body dip into molten lava simply because he is somehow physically tougher than someone with 10 hit points? That is neither realistic nor cinematic, either. ...

actually, that sounds pretty cinematic to me

~NegZ