Action point when dazed

[karooba]

Just a quick question. If you're dazed and have already used a standard action, can you use an action point to take another standard action?

Thanks

 

[sfedi]

Yes you can.

 

[Mengu]

You can use free actions while dazed, using an action point is a free action, therefore, you can use an action point while dazed.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Yeah, well, there are actually a variety of opinions on this amongst your more rules lawyerly types. Suffice it to say the rules aren't actually clear on that point, but its pretty fair to say that the INTENT is yes you can. You may run into a DM now and then with different ideas.

 

[N8Ball]

Yeah, well, there are actually a variety of opinions on this amongst your more rules lawyerly types. Suffice it to say the rules aren't actually clear on that point, but its pretty fair to say that the INTENT is yes you can. You may run into a DM now and then with different ideas.

I'd be interested to hear any lawyerly argument as to why you couldn't use a Action point while dazed. Thematically, I can see why a DM might house rule that way, but the rules as written seem pretty cut and dried.

The Dazed condition explicitly says you *can* take free actions while dazed.

The action point section says "Spending an Action Point: Free Action"


Arguing that the rules say otherwise will be a pretty tall order.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'd be interested to hear any lawyerly argument as to why you couldn't use a Action point while dazed. Thematically, I can see why a DM might house rule that way, but the rules as written seem pretty cut and dried.

The Dazed condition explicitly says you *can* take free actions while dazed.

The action point section says "Spending an Action Point: Free Action"


Arguing that the rules say otherwise will be a pretty tall order.

I think the argument is not "You cannot spend an Action Point while Dazed", so much as "Spending an Action Point while Dazed is of no benefit" - that is, the argument is whether the limitation of "You can take either a standard action, a move action, or a minor action on your turn" trumps the benefit of "You gain an extra action this turn". After all, gaining an additional action is of no help if you are still limited to taking only one action.

Personally, I'd rule that the additional action overrules the limitation, but I could see a DM ruling the opposite.

-Hyp.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Wouldn't the general rule be the rules for using action points? It is something every PC gets, it is a built-in mechanic of the core game.

The specific rule would be Dazed. Which is a special case, a condition. Something that isn't always active or there, it is applied on specific occassions (powers and such).

Specific trumps general?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Wouldn't the general rule be the rules for using action points? It is something every PC gets, it is a built-in mechanic of the core game.

The specific rule would be Dazed. Which is a special case, a condition. Something that isn't always active or there, it is applied on specific occassions (powers and such).

Specific trumps general?

The general rule is "You get a standard, a move, and a minor action each round".

Use of an action point is an exception to the general rule. The Dazed condition is an exception to the general rule.

Which is the more important exception isn't clear.

I think part of my inclination towards allowing the action point to win out comes from the rule for a Charge - after you charge, you can't take any actions... except if you spend an action point. Which is precedent for the extra action from an action point superceding a limitation on actions.

-Hyp.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I think the argument is not "You cannot spend an Action Point while Dazed", so much as "Spending an Action Point while Dazed is of no benefit" - that is, the argument is whether the limitation of "You can take either a standard action, a move action, or a minor action on your turn" trumps the benefit of "You gain an extra action this turn". After all, gaining an additional action is of no help if you are still limited to taking only one action.

Personally, I'd rule that the additional action overrules the limitation, but I could see a DM ruling the opposite.

-Hyp.

You're exactly correct. Dazed doesn't "take away" actions, it limits how many you can SPEND. Normally there is no limit to how many you can spend, only how many you HAVE. Using an AP gives you another action and normally you can then spend it, but when dazed the argument is "Yeah, you HAVE that extra action, but you're only allowed to spend one action, so you can't use it." I tend to believe this arose more from WotC's inability to avoid sloppy wording in the rules than intent, but it is a valid way to read them. Truthfully only a small minority of DMs in my experience rule it that way and I have to agree its probably better ruled that you can use an AP. More fun for players generally.

 

[Markn]

There is also a FAQ at WotC site that specifically answers this question - and the answer is Yes you can spend an Action Point even while being Dazed.