Activating Scrolls Question

[Marco Ender]

Hello all, here is a question that came up during yesterdays session, maybe someone can clear out things for us

From the 3.0 SRD Magic Items - Scrolls - Activation:

If the character meets all three requirements but his or her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then the character has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If the character fails, he or she must make a Wisdom check (DC 5) to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps, below). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers.

Ok, this leads to three different outcomes:
1. caster level check is made: successful activation of the scroll.
2. caster level check failed, Wisdom check made: ???
3. caster level check failed, Wisdom check failed: mishap

Now what is the outcome of 2.?

a) successful activation of the scroll, since a mishap is avoided.
b) nothing happens since no successful activation was accomplished, and the scroll remains working.
c) nothing happens since no successful activation was accomplished, but the scroll is used and vanishes.

Please point out the right answer and if possible where this is stated in the rules, we were not able to find it.

tia

Marco

 

[Telperion]

Ok, this leads to three different outcomes:
1. caster level check is made: successful activation of the scroll.
2. caster level check failed, Wisdom check made: ???
3. caster level check failed, Wisdom check failed: mishap

Now what is the outcome of 2.?

a) successful activation of the scroll, since a mishap is avoided.
b) nothing happens since no successful activation was accomplished, and the scroll remains working.
c) nothing happens since no successful activation was accomplished, but the scroll is used and vanishes.

I have thought of this as well. Here's an additional thought on the subject:

Party goes adventuring and for some reason finds a scroll that contain Meteor Swarm.

Lvl 1 wizard reads the scroll with Read Magic and spends an hour hopping up and down and whooping like hell.

If a) is true then that 1st level wizard will most likely be able to cast Meteor Swarm whenever he feels like. The chances of a mishap are petty low. It would also make high-level scrolls unbelievably valuable.

If b) then the 1st level wizard just keeps trying again and again until he gets it right. It's perfectly doable, since the DC isn't really that high.

If c) well, then the scroll is wasted after you try it out and screw it up once. Personally I'm in this camp, because I don't want my players chasing after high-level spell-scrolls and then pulling them out time and again in fight "just to see if it works this time". Sure, if it doesn't then they would put the scroll away until the next fight, but it doesn't make me any happier.

So, although I haven't seen an official ruling on this I would certainly go with c).

 

[Zodar]

Not to sound nitpicky or anything, but the paragraph you quoted answers your question already:

The caster level check is needed to cast the spell successfully, not to activate the scroll.

So, I'd definitely go with c)

 

[Marco Ender]

Not to sound nitpicky or anything, but the paragraph you quoted answers your question already:

The caster level check is needed to cast the spell successfully, not to activate the scroll.

So, I'd definitely go with c)

Well, then here is the Sentence from the SRD right in front of the text quoted above:

If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell’s caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check.

Where does it state that the scroll is always actived if i don´t have the caster level of the spells caster level?

 

[Telperion]

Where does it state that the scroll is always actived if i don´t have the caster level of the spells caster level?

No such line in the DMG.

 

[Zodar]

In the 3.5e FAQ it says:

If you aren’t of the right level to read a scroll, you have to
make a caster level check to actually use the scroll, right? If
this fails, you have to make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid
a mishap. What happens to the scroll if you fail both
checks? Does the failure erase the scroll? What happens if
you fail the caster level check, but make the Wisdom check?
Is the writing on the scroll still there?
If you do not succeed in activating a scroll spell, the spell is
not used up. If you suffer a mishap when you fail to cast the
spell, however, you activate the scroll after a fashion and the
scroll is wasted. You likewise lose the spell on the scroll if you
fail any Concentration check you might have to make while
using the scroll. You also lose the spell from the scroll or if you
fail any arcane spell failure roll you might have to make when
using the scroll.

I'd use this ruling for 3.0, too, even if it isn't stated anywhere AFAIK.

So, I hereby change my vote to b)
(Even if I may seem inconsistent here, lol)

 

[Marco Ender]

In the 3.5e FAQ it says:

If you aren’t of the right level to read a scroll, you have to
make a caster level check to actually use the scroll, right? If
this fails, you have to make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid
a mishap. What happens to the scroll if you fail both
checks? Does the failure erase the scroll? What happens if
you fail the caster level check, but make the Wisdom check?
Is the writing on the scroll still there?
If you do not succeed in activating a scroll spell, the spell is
not used up. If you suffer a mishap when you fail to cast the
spell, however, you activate the scroll after a fashion and the
scroll is wasted. You likewise lose the spell on the scroll if you
fail any Concentration check you might have to make while
using the scroll. You also lose the spell from the scroll or if you
fail any arcane spell failure roll you might have to make when
using the scroll.

I'd use this ruling for 3.0, too, even if it isn't stated anywhere AFAIK.

So, I hereby change my vote to b)
(Even if I may seem inconsistent here, lol)

Thank you, that clears things out (Note to self: next time RTFFAQ first! )!