AD&D1 "CRs" for AD&D1 demons and devils

[ruleslawyer]

Right.

As I mentioned, the problem with setting archfiends' power level is that everyone simply chooses their own source to call "canon." Never mind that 1e archfiends, while some of the most powerful monsters in the books, fall short of the tarrasque, solar, and more powerful liches in might. Never mind that even on their home planes, the 1e archfiends are no match for even lesser deities with significant class-level progression. Never mind that Planes of Chaos, the only 2e source to actually provide stats for archfiends, makes them sub-20th-level challenges. Instead, we can go to contradictory sources like Dragon 223 or On Hallowed Ground, which don't provide archfiend stats, but do provide lore and rumor to indicate epic- or divine-level power for the archfiends.

People really need to get used to the fact that WotC isn't shattering any long-held "canon" by putting archfiend CRs in the low twenties. They're taking a direction that people simply don't like. Thus, we have our good friends at Dicefreaks to provide excellent, detailed, and compelling epic-level (or deity-level) stats for the archfiends, and there you go.

 

[Ripzerai]

In the sense of being close to the limits of mortal ability and being able to defeat just about any "normal" challenge in the assumed campaign world, yes. In the sense of literally being as powerful as a 20th level 3.5 character - hell no!

There you have it, then. Demonic power had to advance to keep up with the increase in assumed maximum power for PCs. It's pretty silly to compare levels directly as if they still mean the same thing.

 

[BOZ]

indeed. a 15th-level character from AD&D 1E is a very different thing from a 15th-level character in 3E.