Adamantine vs. Incorporeality

[Tom Cashel]

Found it myself:

"A weapon with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus."

 

[Tom Cashel]

But by the RULES (and this is the rules forum, no?) there is no distinction between a "+2 natural enhancement bonus" and a "+2 enhancement bonus."

Sure there's a difference. One's "natural" and one's not. Why say "natural" if there's no difference?

 

[Lucius Foxhound]

I dunno... they can't stack, can they? If they could stack, I would say there's a difference. But if natural and magical don't stack, that means they're the same thing, no?

 

[Dave99]

They don't stack for balance reasons, not because they are the same.

If they were aloud to stack you would have a +3 weapon for the cost of +1, hence everyone would want/have one.

 

[spunky_mutters]

I would say they are both enhancement bonuses, so they explicitly don't stack, and that the natural qualifier is just to make it evident that it is not derived from, and will not act as magic in any situations. So no hitting incorporeal or penetrating DR (pre 3.5).

 

[kreynolds]

Why? You have to have "+1" before you can have "keen"?

1) Because those are the rules, and 2) the enhancement bonus on adamantine does not meet the prerequisites for keen on a weapon described in the DMG.

Found it myself:

"A weapon with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus."

Yup, but the bonus on adamantine is not a magical enhancement bonus, thus "no" to keen on a nonenhanced adamantine weapon.

 

[Tom Cashel]

Yup, but the bonus on adamantine is not a magical enhancement bonus, thus "no" to keen on a nonenhanced adamantine weapon.

Yeah, but there's the rub. The rule that I quoted above says the weapon has to have at least a "+1 enhancement bonus." It doesn't say "magical enhancement bonus." Therefore, the rules can be read to imply that an adamantine weapon, with its intrinsic "+2 natural enhancement bonus," automatically fulfills the requirements for special abilities (e.g. keen).

I happen to think that this is not intended, but rather a loophole.

I dunno... they can't stack, can they? If they could stack, I would say there's a difference. But if natural and magical don't stack, that means they're the same thing, no?

No. Not necessarily. From the SRD, emphasis mine:

Bonuses of different types always stack. Identical types of bonuses do not stack.

Different named bonus types all stack, but usually a named bonus does not stack with another bonus of the same name (except for enhancement bonuses to armor and shields, enhancement bonuses to ranged weapons and their ammunition, dodge bonuses, synergy bonuses, and some circumstance bonuses).

 

[LokiDR]

Yeah, this topic goes round and round and round. It doesn't surprise me that it hasn't been addressed in the FAQ though. I don't really think the "adamantine can bypass DR" thing even _needs_ to be addressed in the FAQ, because as far as "official" is concerned, the DMG doesn't say that it can and the MMII specifically says that it can't.

With that said, however, since not everyone own's MMII, perhaps it should indeed be addressed in the FAQ.

I don't think it is game breaking either way. Just so long as people remember they need +1 magical enhancement to put special abilities on the weapon.

 

[kreynolds]

The rule that I quoted above says the weapon has to have at least a "+1 enhancement bonus." It doesn't say "magical enhancement bonus."

I'm well aware of what the rules say (in this regard, not necessarily in others ), but it doesn't change them.

Therefore, the rules can be read to imply that an adamantine weapon, with its intrinsic "+2 natural enhancement bonus," automatically fulfills the requirements for special abilities (e.g. keen).

Such a reading is either a misinterpretation or a house rule.

I happen to think that this is not intended, but rather a loophole.

I just chalk it up to a poorly written passage.

 

[3d6]

Just a pet peeve of mine: Adamantine greatswords have a natural +2 enhancement bonus, not a +2 natural enhancement bonus. There's no such thing as a "natural enhancement" bonus.

Monster Manual, page 6:
An incorporeal creature has no physical body. If can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, +1 or better magical weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all non-magical attack forms.

Adamantine weapons cannot strike incorporeal creatures, as that requires a magic weapon.

I allow people to add weapon special abilities to adamantine weapons, but I price it per the guidelines for adding new abilities to magic items on page 246 of the Dungeon Master's Guide, and charge 10,000 gp to add a +1 ability to an adamantine greatsword.