D&D 5E Adapting Old Modules: Question About Level Ranges

[pukunui]

Hi all,

I've got a heap of old modules and Dungeon mags, and I've been meaning to adapt some of the adventures to 5e for my homebrew campaign. I haven't always been too sure about what level to use them at, though, and one reason is because of how TSR tended to slap a range of levels on their products.

Since I'm making sure that the PCs in my campaign are all the same level, how should I go about reading those level ranges in terms of appropriateness for my party? Should I take the median? So like, if an AD&D adventure says it's for levels 5-7, should I aim to use it at 6th level? If it says it's for levels 1-3, should I aim for 2nd level?

Or, since many of these old modules were also written with 6-8 PCs in mind (were groups really that big back then?!), should I go for the top level? So if I've got an adventure that's for levels 5-7, should I aim to use it at 7th level since I'll have fewer than the expected number of PCs?

Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Jonathan

 

[CapnZapp]

I seem to remember this exact question being asked just a few short weeks ago.

Can't search for it here, but hopefully you'll find it.

 

[TerraDave]

Its a bit circular...you can start with the module, or with the levels you want and then adapt.

So if it is 4-7, and you have a 5th level party, eyeball the encounters do make sure the XP amount and relative challenge is about right. (Note that I did not mention CR, for reasons that have been hashed out on these boards many times). You can then adjust things like number of enemies to make it work. A similar logic applies to implied DCs and damage for things like traps, which can be quite frequent in many old modules.

Some modules, like Village of Homlet or Lost City, also give the players potential allies, again that can influence encounter difficulty.

In general, classic gygax and some well known B/X adventures could be really deadly. On the other hand, 5E characters are quite robust. So it balances out a bit. One reason to respect the broader level range is in terms of the magic the party has access to. In some adventures, I can see where they start assuming more powerful spells are available.

Basically, do what you want, it will work fine.

 

[not-so-newguy]

I asked this at rpg net months ago...
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?757349-5e-BECMI-Level-Equivalents

ETA
Sorry, I was asking about BECMI. there might some useful info there though.

 

[feartheminotaur]

I've converted quite a few modules. I DM'ed a party from 1st to 8th before it petered out with just old 1e modules. I noticed a few things about levels and which ones to pick:

1. I'd add +1 to any magic heavy 5e party to approximate the magic expected in 1e. So a 1st level 5e party is akin to a 2nd level 1e party. 1e magic users and clerics had less magic overall - less spells, less slots, etc. A "modern" D&D party can circumvent a lot of expected challenges simply with the sheer number of spells available. We did the Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh for levels 1-3. The expectation was the MU had 3 spells (2 1st, 1 2nd) per day. A 5e wizard has 4/2 plus cantrips. The (spoiler, I guess) gnolls hidden in the basement were wiped out in less than two rounds. The BBG wizard had ONE second level spell prepped (invisibility) as a 4th level illusionist. Not much of a challenge either.

2. I'd also say add +1 to your 5e party level since there are lot of "save or die" effects that inflate the level rating. Once it's converted to damage, 5e style, it makes the challenge less dangerous (or at least lowers the level expectation for a successful save versus percentage). A 1st level 5e party can survive those effects easier than a 1st level 1e party could. I'll stick with Saltmarsh - there's a planted assassin in the house. His assassinate ability can kill a PC w/ one hit, regardless of damage done. In 5e, he may hit with an Assassinate crit, but not kill the PC outright - making him far less deadly. His 'envenomed dagger' is more of same.

3. The party size also affects the class rating, but not as much as it seems. Bigger parties meant more resources, but still less at 6-8 than a 4-6 person 5e party. A 5e party with one wizard has as many spells per day available as a 1e party with 2 magic users - and that's not including cantrips. Although, 1e modules loved mobs...but if you're tweaking the encounters based on 5e XP guidelines, shouldn't be a problem.

Overall, I'd say it's worked out to be 5e party level +2 = 1e party level. I'd add another +1 for more than 6 PCs.

So, Against the Giants is Levels 8-12, I'd say it would be 6-10 in 5e; 5-9 if you have 6+ PCs.

 

[pukunui]

So, Against the Giants is Levels 8-12, I'd say it would be 6-10 in 5e; 5-9 if you have 6+ PCs.

Thanks. However, I am wondering how to take that level range and reduce it down to a single level. Let's use Saltmarsh again. It says it's for levels 1-3. Let's say I've got a party that's all the same level and always will be. What is the optimal party level for the Saltmarsh adventure? Should I go with the average party level of 2 (and then adjust from there when converting to 5e)?

Just to be clear: I'm not asking for help converting old modules to 5e. I can do the actual conversion work easily enough. It's more trying to make sense of these level ranges TSR slapped on everything. I don't have a party of mixed-level PCs. They're all the same level. So I want to boil down the level ranges to a single level so I can get a feel for what level I should use as a starting point when converting over to 5e.

Does that make more sense?

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

I recently ran When a Star Falls that I converted, somewhat on the fly.
It's marked as for 6-10 characters of levels 3-5.

My party of three level 5s (Druid, barn, ranger) and one level 3 (a wizard who joined towards the end) found it relatively easy. The two red dragons at the end were replaced with one green one and that by far was the biggest threat, nearly causing a PC death. Apart from that, no huge challenges that felt deadly.

Actually, scratch that. The Npc villains were way more dangerous, a spellcaster Sleeped one guy, reduced another to 1 HP and dominated the third.

So the levels were right but the volume of characters was at the very low end. I would, based off this one example, suggest that if an adventure is advertised as for 4-6 characters of levels 3-5, assume it was good for 3 characters of level 3. But a lot depends on the villains - if monsters, ok but if Npc villains adjust difficulty upwards.

If that helps in any way shape or form.

 

[pukunui]

My party of three level 5s (Druid, barn, ranger) ...

Is that a custom class? If so, where can I find it? I wanna play a barn!

I would, based off this one example, suggest that if an adventure is advertised as for 4-6 characters of levels 3-5, assume it was good for 3 characters of level 3. But a lot depends on the villains - if monsters, ok but if Npc villains adjust difficulty upwards.

Hmm. I haven't run it yet, but one of the adventures I'm looking at is Quest for the Heartstone. It says it's for 6-8 characters of 5-10 levels. The characters "should have a total of 45-55 levels". The average of 5-10 is 7.5, so I could start by looking at running it for 7th level 5e PCs.

The adventure includes a white dragon (presumably an adult; the adventure doesn't specify). Since HotDQ also includes an encounter with an adult white dragon that the PCs are expected to face at 7th or 8th level, I suppose we could say that that's about right then. Yeah?

 

[TerraDave]

So I want to boil down the level ranges to a single level so I can get a feel for what level I should use as a starting point when converting over to 5e.

Does that make more sense?

Yes. There is no single answer. Again, it might be easier to pick the level and go the other way.

 

[CapnZapp]

I honestly believe you're overthinking it.

If five PCs of 10th level run that Quest... module, they might find it a tad easy (because they have the precise amount of levels suggested, and because each level of 5E character is slightly more capable than a level of AD&D character as per the above)...

...or, you run it for five 5th level characters, who should find it a real challenge, pulling out all the stops to come out on top.

Either way, after a VERY rough guesstimate, factors specific to each party take over: such as how well do your players cooperate, how well do the characters synergize, and how sturdy are the individual characters. Not to mention pure, unadulterated chance. And then there's... You. Meaning, the DM and his or her gamesmastering style.

The hard truth is that one group of ten 10th level characters can bungle the same scenario another group of five 5th level characters makes short work of.

So once you've established you have the right tier, there's really not much to be gained by further analysis - instead, it's time to play!

Once you have a couple of modules under your belt, you will know how your specific party holds up, and then you will be eminently capable of knowing exactly what you can throw at those specific players and characters.

But we won't have that information, and so involving us will ultimately be of limited utility.

TL;DR: Try the module! Worst case scenario - everybody dies! Then, assuming you have mature gamers that trust you, just try again - you (and they) will never make that same mistake again! [emoji3]