Adding multishot to d20M?

[Plane Sailing]

Although I've not had the chance to start a d20m campaign yet, I've run a few combat simulations of various typical types to get a feel for the game.

I find that compared to StarWars I really miss the "multishot" ability that people have with most pistols & rifles. Basically *anyone* with a blaster and a full attack can take an extra attack (for -4 on all attacks). Someone with rapid shot can take another extra attack (three attacks, all at -6). There is an improved multishot feat to allow the multiple shots to be at -2 on all attacks instead of -4.

I'm thinking of introducing this idea to d20m, for use with all semiautomatic weapons. It seems reasonable to me that anyone should be able to squeeze off a couple of shots in 6 seconds if they're not doing anything else, and without having the double-tap feat or something similar. The combats that I ran all seemed strange compared to the SWd20 games because of this limitation.

I was wondering whether anyone else had thought about this/tried it and dismissed it/tried it and liked it. I'll almost certainly give it a go and see how it works out (and I'll report back too!), but I'd be interested to see if anyone has already had a go.

Cheers

 

[Ranger REG]

Personally, the double-tap, autofire, burst fire, and strafe attacks are much more favorable than the Star Wars version, even one or two steps lethal, if you employ blaster weapons.

Remember, the above are attacks, so a PC with BAB +6/+1 can make two double-tap attacks (one or two targets), two autofire attacks (in the same 10-by-10 area twice, or spread over two areas), two burst fire attacks (inflict more damage toward on target while expending more ammos), or two strafe attacks( in the same 4 adjacent squares twice, or 8 adjacent squares total).

 

[Plane Sailing]

Personally, the double-tap, autofire, burst fire, and strafe attacks are much more favorable than the Star Wars version, even one or two steps lethal, if you employ blaster weapons.

But they all require feats, and are unusable by people who don't have the feats.

I like the idea of having an additional option for grunts and low level characters. which isn't as effective as the feat-based attacks above, of course, but is still there as an option

 

[Pall Bearer]

Hi Plane Sailing,

This is one of those little things that is just broken in D20Modern. I'm sure others who feel like you (and I) do have house rules to slap a bandaid on the bleeding, but in case you're interested, mine works as follows.

Autofire: I leave it alone. It works as stated.

Burst Fire: Since it is patently absurd to think, for instance, that when someone untrained, or worse, someone with a Wisdom of 12 instead of 13, fires a SMG in burst mode that they waste all the other bullets. Therefore, I allow them to do so normally and assess a large (-4 ADDITIONAL, for a total -8) penalty to their attack roll. They still get the same benefit though: ie:+2 dice of damage. This makes it far less likely that an untrained or "stat inferior" individual can do it... but it isn't a silly assed "you can't do it cause it's in the rules" arguement that flies in the face of reason.

Double Tap: I simply assess an additional -4 penalty for the same reasons as above. Hey, this makes sense in even a cinematic fashion. How often in the movies does the good guy pick up a gun he's probably never seen the like of before and after a few problems start using it with atleast some degree of compotence? Too, I know from personal experience that it doesn't take but about 30 or so practice rounds fired to get that double tap technique down. It's relatively simple.

Strafe: Same mechanic, the additional -4 penalty, same reasoning applies here too.


Pall Bearer

 

[Plane Sailing]

I've heard someone else suggest that too, and it seems like quite a nice idea - a logical extension of those feats which negate a -4 penalty (weapon proficiency being the basic one). I'll probably add it to my list of potential rules changes for when I run a campaign.

I guess the downside is that the 20th strong/martial artist could pick up an AK47 untrained and still get +12 to hit with his burst fire attack. Is that a problem? I don't know yet.

Cheers

 

[Pall Bearer]

Hi Plane Sailing,

I look at it this way: The guy is 20th level. True, not as a Gunslinger, but still, with all that experience, especially combat experience, with all the intuition that is abstracted in as part of the reason why these guys have all those hit points and such an incredibly high base skill to begin with, he would be quickly able to master the basics enough that a +12, for a pure combat artist, even outside his field, is hardly out of line. A 20th level Mage with the neccesary skills is about as good as he is anything but a combat specialist.


Pall Bearer

 

[Ranger REG]

But they all require feats, and are unusable by people who don't have the feats.

I like the idea of having an additional option for grunts and low level characters. which isn't as effective as the feat-based attacks above, of course, but is still there as an option

Then convert d20 Modern autofire and double tap feats into attack options that anyone can use, and merge burst fire and strafe feats into one feat.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Then convert d20 Modern autofire and double tap feats into attack options that anyone can use, and merge burst fire and strafe feats into one feat.

No, I think what I'd do is allow double tap, burst fire and strafe to be options that anyone can use, but at a -4 penalty. The feats will still exist, and negate the -4 penalty. (advanced firearms proficiency already does *exactly this* for autofire).

Cheers

 

[Ranger REG]

Is that -4 penalty in addition to to the regular penalty for each of the attack options (-2 for double tap, -4 for burst fire)? Or is that considered a nonproficient penalty?

 

[Plane Sailing]

It is an additional, nonproficient penalty

i.e. double tap is 4 points harder to do if you don't have the feat.

without feat -6, with feat -2

burst fire without feat -8, with feat -4

There will be a lot of cases when you wouldn't want to try this without the feat (!), but at least it will still remain an option, although clearly a suboptimal one!