Adult: GUCK development forum III

[Sorn]

I'd say "stack" is the wrong term for the Miss Chance.

Example... Linda knows she is going to have fun with some random guy in town. Before she leaves, she applies olive oil, inserts a gnomish cervical cap and vaginal sponge soaked in honey and crocodile dung. To be really safe, she drinks an herbal tea she got from the hedge-witch two doors down.

Her partner, worried about disease, wears a sheath made from a fish-bladder.

After he is done, the pregancy roll is made... It indicates that conception occurs, but the various forms of contraception get a say now. Linda and her partner roll for the olive oil, the cervical cap, the sponge, the tea, and the condom.

If any miss would indicate that, the contraceptive prevented conception. No need to make any more rolls after that one. On a "hit", keep rolling and hope that the following contraceptives prevent conception. If only one contraceptive was used, that would mean that there's a baby on the way. This system rewards people who don't just rely on one form of contraception.

The only difficult thing here is how to deal with other forms of birth control. Since we don't have any plans for rules for menstruation, any timed birth control method would be hard to replicate with a miss chance. Apart from the true lunar cycle counting method, most of those are modern though (taking temperature every morning, etc.), so it shouldn't be a big deal.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Re: As far as the contraception thing goes...

Since we already have the "Withdrawal" method (Under Veteran's Knack) that uses a percentage for Contraception, why don't we stay consistent and make it a general "miss chance."

One roll for the conception, which, if pregnancy is indicated, is followed by a "Contraception" roll, which is a straight percentage.

That way we stay true to what we're doing, and other methods of contraception can easily be added by just assigning them a "miss chance". I'm just wondering if the percentages for miss chances should stack, or if we should only use the highest percentage in use for a combined chance.

Stuart

After all, conception isn't all that likely. Using the revised table, humans have only a 6% chance. You only need to make the contraceptive roll if conception is indicated--only 6% of the time. No big deal.
Also, beyond low levels I think most people will be using some form of magical contraception, negating the whole issue.

As for stacking: There are five basic methods of preventing conception:

Barrier containing the semen (condom)
Spermacide
Barrier shielding the uterus (diaphram, cervical cap)
Things which prevent ovulation (the pill)
Things which prevent implantation. (IUD)

I would say that you take the best method of each type. Two items of a single type won't stack, two different types will.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Originally posted by Sorn
I'd say "stack" is the wrong term for the Miss Chance.

Good point--they act independantly.

Example... Linda knows she is going to have fun with some random guy in town. Before she leaves, she applies olive oil, inserts a gnomish cervical cap and vaginal sponge soaked in honey and crocodile dung. To be really safe, she drinks an herbal tea she got from the hedge-witch two doors down.

Her partner, worried about disease, wears a sheath made from a fish-bladder.

I wouldn't let the sponge stack with the cervical cap. Nor would the olive oil stack with the honey & dung.

If any miss would indicate that, the contraceptive prevented conception. No need to make any more rolls after that one. On a "hit", keep rolling and hope that the following contraceptives prevent conception.

Exactly.

The only difficult thing here is how to deal with other forms of birth control. Since we don't have any plans for rules for menstruation, any timed birth control method would be hard to replicate with a miss chance. Apart from the true lunar cycle counting method, most of those are modern though (taking temperature every morning, etc.), so it shouldn't be a big deal.

Primitives could still use mucous texture as well as counting days.

How I would handle rhythm: The woman must indicate in advance that she is using it. (It's *NOT* something you can use spontaneously very well.) She can ask the DM if it's a safe time. Provide a table to roll on if the DM doesn't track time.

 

[brevdravis]

Cascading rolls?

Are we sure that we want to have that many rolls though? How bout we give each method 2 chances, only one of which stacks.

For example:
Fish Bladder Sheath 25%/ +10%

What this means is that if used alone, there's only a 25% chance of preventing a pregnancy, BUT if used with other methods, you add 10% to the highest "miss Chance".

Not too complex, and cuts down the amount of rolls.

Stuart

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Re: Cascading rolls?

Are we sure that we want to have that many rolls though? How bout we give each method 2 chances, only one of which stacks.

For example:
Fish Bladder Sheath 25%/ +10%

What this means is that if used alone, there's only a 25% chance of preventing a pregnancy, BUT if used with other methods, you add 10% to the highest "miss Chance".

Not too complex, and cuts down the amount of rolls.

Stuart

You could do it, but I don't think it's that much of an issue. Remember, for a human you'll only be making rolls 6% of the time--and that's assuming there's no foolproof magic involved.

The problem with doing it this way is that one roll is limited to 95%--and some methods will already reach that point on their own.
Either you permit methods to sum to 100% effective or you end up with adding something to an already good method doing nothing.


Incidently, my list of 5 methods is incomplete. There's a 6th--male birth control pills. Just because there's nothing FDA approved doesn't mean the class doesn't exist.

 

[Sorn]

I agree with Loren here... it is a proven fact that using multiple forms of birth control is the safest way of having fun. Most modern form of contraceptives have a chance of failure (usually indicated by a 99.9% rate of success), but it really bites if you are the 0.1% couple. Hence, you combine contraceptives. To keep down the amount of flipping through pages and calculating mods, it's probably easier (and just as realistic) to keep the miss-chance and make cascading rolls.

In a fantasy game, without modern quality control, none of the mundane contraceptives will be all that great. The only sure-thing way of preventing babies is magic.

I wouldn't let the sponge stack with the cervical cap. Nor would the olive oil stack with the honey & dung.

Agreed... My example was a little over-the-top on purpose. Besides, all that stuff in or on the genitals will make any meaningful intercourse nearly impossible anyway.

Most people will use one form of contraceptive, and a few people might use two. I can't really imagine anyone being as extreme as I outlined. The time it would take to apply all of those items would seriously ruin the mood if you ask me.

 

[davethebrave371]

Trimester

"PREGNANCY

Pregnancy is broken down into nine stages. For humans, each of these stages represents a month of pregnancy. At the beginning of each stage, the mother must test once each against Weakness, Awkwardness and Exhaustion. Failure represents the loss of a point of Strength, Dexterity or Constitution, respectively – this loss cannot be removed until after the pregnancy, when it recovers at the usual rate. The DC for these checks, and for spotting that the childbearer is pregnant, are given in the table below:

Check DC Spot DC
Stage I 10 75
Stage II 12 50
Stage III 14 35
Stage IV 16 25
Stage V 18 20
Stage VI 20 15
Stage VII 22 10
Stage VIII 24 5
Stage IX 26 0



Should the mother roll a natural 1 on her Weakness, Awkwardness or Exhaustion checks during the first stage, the embryo will not implant and pregnancy will be negated. Thereafter, it will only be when two Weakness, Awkwardness or Exhaustion checks have rolled 1’s in the same stage that the child will die.

I don't think this is such a good idea, especially when applied to commoners (which seems to be one of our big check and balance systems). Imagine Lucy the peasant, with a Str, Con and Dex of 10. She rolled lousy for her checks, and her saves are VERY low. At the end of the pregnancy, she has effective stats of 1. The Con drain affecting her hit points alone might kill her. God beware if she has a stat at 9, which means she could simply die from exhaustion (not labor mind you, just having the belly). Also, if we use any sort of Con modifiers for labor and delivery, we will assure that most of the mothers will simply die during childbirth. Granted, a pregnancy will change your life around, but it shouldn't be lethal just by itself.

As an alternate system, how about this: If you fail your check, you receive an armor check penalty equal to the stage you are in? A -9 in the late stages to the same skills affected by ACP sounds about right to me. Of course it would stack with any existing ACP the character might have, plus your armor might not fit anymore.

To simplify the things, starting at Stage 3, the check DC is 10+Stage. Early on, I don't think there would be much of a hindrance, so we could skip the first two stages."

What about -2 for each per trimester? Just a thought.

Didn't get any feedback, so I was wondering if anyone saw it.

Sooo...what about -2 per trimester?

 

[Sorn]

We are still fiddling with the conception rules... we'll get to gestation and pregancy shortly.

Btw, VVrayven, how are the soft-focus rules coming?

 

[brevdravis]

If I've got it right...

Sooo,

We're doing one roll for every method used. That's cool, but if we do it that way, then I think we should definitely make the conception rolls per encounter, so we don't have to make six rolls every time a male ejaculates.

Stuart

 

[Sorn]

BrevDavis, that about sums it up.

As far as the contraceptive rolls go, it will be a lot less rolls for most encounters. Just to reaffirm that for everybody:

Most couples won't go to the extreme when it comes to contraception. One (maybe two at most) contraceptive used at any given time will be the norm. And if the first one works, the second one won't even need a roll.

On that note, I have acquired the book on contraceptives I was talking about earlier and am in the process of reading it. As I am reading, I am compiling a list. Once I am done, I will break down said list into the categories Loren detailed. Only one item from each category can be used at the same time. That should take care of too many rolls and saves us the trouble of researching weird interactions. ("So does the olive oil still work when you also have honey and crocodile dung in your crotch?")

Here's a little preview (lacking the miss chances, as I haven't gotten that far):

Containment
Condom (Fish Bladder)
Condom (Animal Gut)
Condom (Linen)
Condom, Female (Fish Bladder)
Condom, Female (Animal Gut)
Condom, Female (Linen)

Uterus Shield
Cervical Cap
Sponge
Rice-Paper Diaphragm

Spermicide
Olive Oil
Honey & Crocodile Dung
Elephant Dung

Ovulation Prevention
Maybe a list of herbs that act like the Pill

Implantation Prevention
This seems more of a modern thing, but I might come up with some gnomish devices.