Adult: GUCK development forum III

[Loren Pechtel]

I agree with Loren here... it is a proven fact that using multiple forms of birth control is the safest way of having fun. Most modern form of contraceptives have a chance of failure (usually indicated by a 99.9% rate of success), but it really bites if you are the 0.1% couple. Hence, you combine contraceptives. To keep down the amount of flipping through pages and calculating mods, it's probably easier (and just as realistic) to keep the miss-chance and make cascading rolls.

Consider: FDA requirements for the use of thalidomide are sterilization/menopause/abstinence or two methods of birth control.

In a fantasy game, without modern quality control, none of the mundane contraceptives will be all that great. The only sure-thing way of preventing babies is magic.

Sure, they won't be all that great--but I would figure 80-90% effectiveness even then.

Agreed... My example was a little over-the-top on purpose. Besides, all that stuff in or on the genitals will make any meaningful intercourse nearly impossible anyway.

That it might!

Most people will use one form of contraceptive, and a few people might use two. I can't really imagine anyone being as extreme as I outlined. The time it would take to apply all of those items would seriously ruin the mood if you ask me.

You might very well see more in ancient times when childbirth is more dangerous and individual methods aren't all that reliable.

Note that there are 6 basic types, only three of which are used at the time of intercourse. What if both partners are taking whatever the primitive version of the pill is? That's two or possibly three methods right there without any bother at the time.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Once I am done, I will break down said list into the categories Loren detailed. Only one item from each category can be used at the same time.

You apparently missed my second post--I realized there was a 6th category--things which prevent sperm production or render it ineffective. I don't think you'll find any in your book. I've only heard of one that we don't have any real data on. It's passed FDA safety testing but nobody's interested in doing effectiveness testing as it's patent is long since up and it's not easy to test--the sperm are produced normally, they just don't fertilize the egg. (It's a drug that's been on the market for ages. Infertility has been noted as a side effect. Since it's a heart drug {I forget exactly which type} it's users are rarely interested in conception anyway so there isn't a lot of data.)

That should take care of too many rolls and saves us the trouble of researching weird interactions. ("So does the olive oil still work when you also have honey and crocodile dung in your crotch?")

Agreed.

Uterus Shield
Half a lemon. It's a combination shield and spermicide.

Implantation Prevention
This seems more of a modern thing, but I might come up with some gnomish devices.

The IUD was known long ago. They would put pits in the uterus of camels to prevent conception.

 

[Sorn]

Thanks Loren... I'll make sure to jot all that down. I didn't know about the camel IUD, so I stand corrected and amazed.

History never ceases to do that to me... Ain't it great?

 

[brevdravis]

Slightly off-topic

You know, this might be a little off topic,

BUUUT, perhaps a little sociological sidebar might be appropriate in the contraceptive area. Something about how in a fantasy campaign with reliable birth control women will have more ability towards self determination....

Hence the ability of women in most fantasy campaigns to be warriors, clerics, civic leaders, without having to worry about the possibility of unwanted pregnancy.... Perhaps virginity might be not as vital for marriages, etc.... Think more modern values, etc...

Just an idea, thought I should point it out...

Stuart

 

[Death By Surfeit]

Right – an unpopular declaration to be made, here. I’ve pored over the statistical data, the alternative systems offered, and all the suggestions for contraception and come to the conclusion that simplicity is bliss. I would move to ignore miss chances, multiple contraception routes, and all that in favour of the original +1/+2 to the conception threat DC for mundane/masterwork sheaths.

This offers, on average, a 45%/75% reduction in chances, dropping to 30%/50% at the most fertile end and increases to 55%/80% at the least, an inbalance I’m willing to run with. This also creates an effective contraception system: masterwork sheaths are 97.75% effective for humans. Most importantly, it’s very simple and cuts down the rolls involved; the conception mechanic was designed so that you only had to roll one die at the end of each encounter (another one if a threat was rolled), against a basic DC with few modifiers. I would omit other contraception routes, although potions, ointments and pills to improve/reduce fertility will be available in magical and mundane format (rules will be forthcoming). This way players don't get tied up over making sure they've employed every possiblity, and contraception does not become the focus of any sexual proceedings.

Whilst the other mechanics proposed are very good, imaginative, precise and realistic (especially Loren’s contributions – some very interesting ideas there), I favour the more primitive system as it gives the level of detail we need and little more. If anyone wishes to refute me on this, do so.

If people are willing to accept this resolution, I would move that we start bickering over pregnancy rules instead. Oh, and I like the sociological sidebar idea, brevdravis; a very good point indeed.

*dons flame-retardant gear*

DbS

 

[Alzrius]

Right – an unpopular declaration to be made, here. I’ve pored over the statistical data, the alternative systems offered, and all the suggestions for contraception and come to the conclusion that simplicity is bliss.

Allow me to be the first one to speak out on this...

Hallelujah!

I haven't been posting much here lately because I've been of the opinion that this was becoming much too complicated in-and-of itself.

Truth to tell, I feel that way about several portions of the GUCK already, but I didn't want to say anything. This last round of craziness was the worst yet though. I for one am glad the the person at the top was willing to make an executive decision that I feel will be better for this project as a whole.

Hat's off to you DbS!

 

[Sorn]

No need for any flame-retardant suits here... I can live with the simplistic version.

Even with contraceptives only being a modifier for the conception roll, I'd still like to include various forms of birth control. There are so many cool and interesting things that were used throughout history which would be present in a fantasy world as well. Narrowing it down to Sheath and Sheath, Masterwork doesn't really seem to be the way to go.

However, with the current modifiers, the spread isn't exactly all that big, so any mundane birth control measure would have to be a +1, any masterwork contraceptive a +2. Then again, this cuts down on the math involved.

Very reliable contraceptive methods like IUD's, or the Pill simply don't roll for conception period. I know that there is a very small chance for pregnancy anyway, but it's going to be so small that it shouldn't really matter for game mechanics.

So, DbS, I propose we change the wording to in the modifier table to "Contraceptive +1, MW Contraceptive +2") and put all the possible items into the equipment category.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Right – an unpopular declaration to be made, here. I’ve pored over the statistical data, the alternative systems offered, and all the suggestions for contraception and come to the conclusion that simplicity is bliss. I would move to ignore miss chances, multiple contraception routes, and all that in favour of the original +1/+2 to the conception threat DC for mundane/masterwork sheaths.

This offers, on average, a 45%/75% reduction in chances, dropping to 30%/50% at the most fertile end and increases to 55%/80% at the least, an inbalance I’m willing to run with. This also creates an effective contraception system: masterwork sheaths are 97.75% effective for humans. Most importantly, it’s very simple and cuts down the rolls involved; the conception mechanic was designed so that you only had to roll one die at the end of each encounter (another one if a threat was rolled), against a basic DC with few modifiers. I would omit other contraception routes, although potions, ointments and pills to improve/reduce fertility will be available in magical and mundane format (rules will be forthcoming). This way players don't get tied up over making sure they've employed every possiblity, and contraception does not become the focus of any sexual proceedings.

Whilst the other mechanics proposed are very good, imaginative, precise and realistic (especially Loren’s contributions – some very interesting ideas there), I favour the more primitive system as it gives the level of detail we need and little more. If anyone wishes to refute me on this, do so.

DbS

Trying to incorporate all the methods of contraception into the base roll runs a big problem: There are only two rolls maximum. This gives a maximum odds of 1:400. Thus you either accept that sufficient stacking means no failure chance (by saying that a 21 simply can't be rolled) or you say that a 20 hits no matter what, meaning that with 6 methods you still have a 1 in 400 chance of conceiving. The typical American would suffer an unplanned pregnancy every 3 years on average.


Furthermore, your system requires applying a modifier to *ALL* rolls. At maximum complexity and using some unreliable methods, the multi-roll system only increases the number of rolls by 20% at the most.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So, DbS, I propose we change the wording to in the modifier table to "Contraceptive +1, MW Contraceptive +2") and put all the possible items into the equipment category.

What do you do when the number becomes 21?

 

[Liquid Snake]

Contraception Rules

I think you people should go with the multi-roll system, it is pretty swell and as Loren pointed out, it isn't THAT complex and difficult to use. I mean if someone has reached the point in which they'll use the sex mechanics rules, then a couple of more rolls for pregnancy check will be alright.