Advanced/Epic Dragons with Prestige classes Question

[Belzbet]

Hi everyone, I have recently starting wanting to play some more D&D (my group and myself got busy and whatever) and I have been looking at the epic level handbook. Also, in Draconomicon they offer some dragon prestige classes.

My question concerns dragon age level progression and HD received from prestige classes (or regular classes; these prestige clases werent really designed for the epic dragons so some questions arise). In the section about advanced dragons (pg 179 of epic levelhandbook) it states that for every 5 HD an epic level dragon gains (or 3 HD for regular dragons) they gain an age category (and many benefits because of that, like breath damage, SR, and DR increase). However, it does not state whether these HD must be derived from 'mere' dragon HD (racial HD) of if HD derived from class levels count as well.

Also, dragons gain a +1 increase to NA for every HD they gain beyond great wyrm. And for every three CL above 20CL they gain improved spell capacity. Do they gain these benefits from HD and Caster levels gained from classes?

I know the HD size (d12, d10, etc.), the saving throw increase (high fort, etc) and skill size, is based on your class (and that Dragons have the highest size in all except in skills which they get a d6+int not a d8).

Further, If they did get age category benefits for ALL HD then they would increase in CL every age category (CL increases by 2 for each age category). But if they take levels of a Sorc. then it would seem strange to get 5 CL from 5 levels of sorc. and then an extra 2 Cl from growing up an age category (although this would give an epic Dragon a way to get a CL equal to or closer to its HD; no matter what I would cap their CL gained this way at their HD).

It seems that it would be too much for the HD but they arent specific whether the HD must be derived from dragonlevels or any levels. On the other hand an epic dragon may be better off just taking epic dragon levels (if class levels dont count for age increase) since some of those prestige classes do not give bonuses that are too much (if at all) better than the corresponding level in epic dragon.

If someone knows more than me I would be grateful.

 

[Betrayor]

Hi everyone, I have recently starting wanting to play some more D&D (my group and myself got busy and whatever) and I have been looking at the epic level handbook. Also, in Draconomicon they offer some dragon prestige classes.

My question concerns dragon age level progression and HD received from prestige classes (or regular classes; these prestige clases werent really designed for the epic dragons so some questions arise). In the section about advanced dragons (pg 179 of epic levelhandbook) it states that for every 5 HD an epic level dragon gains (or 3 HD for regular dragons) they gain an age category (and many benefits because of that, like breath damage, SR, and DR increase). However, it does not state whether these HD must be derived from 'mere' dragon HD (racial HD) of if HD derived from class levels count as well.

Also, dragons gain a +1 increase to NA for every HD they gain beyond great wyrm. And for every three CL above 20CL they gain improved spell capacity. Do they gain these benefits from HD and Caster levels gained from classes?

I know the HD size (d12, d10, etc.), the saving throw increase (high fort, etc) and skill size, is based on your class (and that Dragons have the highest size in all except in skills which they get a d6+int not a d8).

Further, If they did get age category benefits for ALL HD then they would increase in CL every age category (CL increases by 2 for each age category). But if they take levels of a Sorc. then it would seem strange to get 5 CL from 5 levels of sorc. and then an extra 2 Cl from growing up an age category (although this would give an epic Dragon a way to get a CL equal to or closer to its HD; no matter what I would cap their CL gained this way at their HD).

It seems that it would be too much for the HD but they arent specific whether the HD must be derived from dragonlevels or any levels. On the other hand an epic dragon may be better off just taking epic dragon levels (if class levels dont count for age increase) since some of those prestige classes do not give bonuses that are too much (if at all) better than the corresponding level in epic dragon.

If someone knows more than me I would be grateful.

First of all the rules about advanced dragon from ELH are superseded from those in Draconomicon,there aren't really any big diiferences but the Draconomicon is 3.5....
Second the advanced dragon only gives dragon hd,so class levels are entirely different from dragon racial hd......
So a dragon's age category and other abilities are strictly derived from racial hit dice.....
Class levels only give what they say in their description.....

Now you ask why would an epic dragon take class levels instead of Racial dragon hit dice?
First of all it is very difficult for a dragon to take more racial hit dice after he reaches Great Wyrm status,according to the draconomicon it would stay stable after the 1200 year milestone until its twilight.....
There are few ways to my knowledge for a dragon to take more racial hit dice,one of them is with a dragon totem and another is with an epic spell,there may be other ways but these are from the top of my head....
So if a a dragon is allready a great wyrm and has not access to some of the ways to take racial hit dice and therefore virtual age categories, then its only choice if it wants to advance is to take class levels.....

The important thing is to remember that the dragon's abilities are derived strictly by its racial hit dice,so for example a Great Wyrm Red Dragon/Barbarian 10 would have Natural armor equal to classless Great Wyrm Red Dragon and its base attack and saves would increase according to the class and not the advanced Dragon Template.......

If you have any more questions I would be happy to answer them....