D&D (2024) Rules Clarification: Epic Boon at 19th Class Level or Total Character Level?

[ECMO3]

Thanks, ECMO3.

Do you have some page numbers and quotations you can offer to help us understand this interpretation? If you read the thread, you will see that we have all been weighing different ways of understanding what is written. You might be right with your interpretation, but it would be nice to know what causes you to so interpret it.

For me it is the Ability Score class feature:

From Barbarian for example: "You gain the Ability Score Improvement feat (see chapter 5) or another feat of your choice for which you qualify. You gain this feature again at Barbarian levels 8, 12, and 16."

The things I mentioned are all feats and they all list the prerequisites for qualifying.

Nothing in there restricts you to a specific type or kind of feat. Additionally there is a table in Chapter 5 called "Feat List" and it lists all the Feats together with no differentiation on type.

If you are asking why you don't get one at 19th level automatically regardless of class, well there is nothing that states you do. "Epic Boon" is a class feature, just like "Ability Score Increase" and "Extra Attack"

 

[FarBeyondC]

If level on its own refers to character level then why does multiclassing have a rule that allows cantrips to upscale with character level?

Because the multiclassing section introduced a rule that would otherwise mean a multiclassed character's cantrips scaled by class level, which would be inconsistent with a nonmulticlassed character's cantrip scaling.

 

[Hatmatter]

For me it is the Ability Score class feature:

From Barbarian for example: "You gain the Ability Score Improvement feat (see chapter 5) or another feat of your choice for which you qualify. You gain this feature again at Barbarian levels 8, 12, and 16."

The things I mentioned are all feats and they all list the prerequisites for qualifying.

Nothing in there restricts you to a specific type or kind of feat. Additionally there is a table in Chapter 5 called "Feat List" and it lists all the Feats together with no differentiation on type.

If you are asking why you don't get one at 19th level automatically regardless of class, well there is nothing that states you do. "Epic Boon" is a class feature.

Thank you, ECMO3. You cite the same passage that John Lloyd did in post #12 of this thread. There has been some discussion about this in this thread. The discussion centers around the difference (and seeming opposing views) between the Ability Score class feature with "or another feat of your choice" and the fact that the "Epic Boon" feature only appears in the various classes Features tables and explanations.

However, buried in your post here is an interesting idea I had not thought of. You appear to be suggesting that the "Epic Boon" is a feature that can bestow either an Epic Boon Feat or any other feat (which we know), BUT that feature -- which is tied to 19th class level is different from the Epic Boon Feat, which only has "Level 19+" listed as a prerequisite. This use of "Level 19+" under the Epic Boon Feat refers to character level based on how both the Elf Traits that John Lloyd pointed out and also the Warlock features that Mort pointed out are written in the 2024 PHB.

I think, ECMO3 this distinction between Epic Boon class Feature and Epic Boon Feat is an important one and may be the missing piece in terms of me understanding that a character may acquire an Epic Boon Feat whenever she or can take a Feat once total character level of 19 or higher has been reached. That action is separate from the Epic Boon class Feature, which is tied to character class level. Brilliant! Thanks!

BTW, I am not sure what you mean by "Additionally there is a table in Chapter 5 called "Feat List" and it lists all the Feats together with no differentiation on type." The Feat List table on pages 199-200 of the 2024 PHB in fact does list the type of each Feat under a column with the header "Category." Every Feat in that table is identified as being an Origin, General, Fighting Style or Epic Boon Feat.

I think it's coming together now for me and I simply want to thank everyone again for sort of thinking this through with me.

 

[ECMO3]

However, buried in your post here is an interesting idea I had not thought of. You appear to be suggesting that the "Epic Boon" is a feature that can bestow either an Epic Boon Feat or any other feat (which we know), BUT that feature -- which is tied to 19th class level is different from the Epic Boon Feat, which only has "Level 19+" listed as a prerequisite. This use of "Level 19+" under the Epic Boon Feat refers to character level based on how both the Elf Traits that John Lloyd pointed out and also the Warlock features that Mort pointed out are written in the 2024 PHB.

Yes absolutely this is my position.

This is just like the Ability Score Increase class feature is different than the Ability Score Increase feat. The ASI feat is one of many Feats you can take through the ASI class feature.

BTW, I am not sure what you mean by "Additionally there is a table in Chapter 5 called "Feat List" and it lists all the Feats together with no differentiation on type." The Feat List table on pages 199-200 of the 2024 PHB in fact does list the type of each Feat under a column with the header "Category." Every Feat in that table is identified as being an Origin, General, Fighting Style or Epic Boon Feat.

You are correct. I do not have my paper copy with me but the table on DNDB does list the type. When I said no distinction what I meant no distinction in the table itseld. It is one table, in alphabetical order. It did not have a separate table for the different types of feats. Poor wording on my part.

 

[Maxperson]

The way I read it is that while the feat says 19+ for level, you don't get a feat at 19th class level. You get the feat at 20th level. The level 19 epic boon is a class feature at 19th level in a single class.

I'd rule it that multiclassing does not grant you the epic boon at 19th level, since you are not 19th level in a class to get it. You could pick an epic boon at 20th level for your 20th level feat, though.

That said, as others have noted it really isn't much better than a normal feat, so it wouldn't break anything to give it at 19th total character level.

 

[Hatmatter]

Yes absolutely this is my position.

This is just like the Ability Score Increase class feature is different than the Ability Score Increase feat. The ASI feat is one of many Feats you can take through the ASI class feature.



You are correct. I do not have my paper copy with me but the table on DNDB does list the type. When I said no distinction what I meant no distinction in the table itseld. It is one table, in alphabetical order. It did not have a separate table for the different types of feats. Poor wording on my part.

Gotcha. Thanks for helping me think this all through. Really, as Far Beyond C wrote a couple pages back, "It's not really all that complex."

But, given that the presentation has been revised and rewritten, I just need to get my legs under me to grasp it all. (And, given that it took until the 12th post -- by John Lloyd -- before the correct interpretation of the question was arrived at, it is clear that others are also feeling out how the revised PHB rules work).

After all, it took me a couple years (and learning from a Youtube video) that Jack of All Trades bestows half of a Bard's proficiency bonus to their initiative roll (a quality that has been eliminated from Jack of All Trades in the 2024 PHB). It just takes me a bit to get the feel for how the various components of the system work together.

 

[Hatmatter]

The way I read it is that while the feat says 19+ for level, you don't get a feat at 19th class level. You get the feat at 20th level. The level 19 epic boon is a class feature at 19th level in a single class.

I'd rule it that multiclassing does not grant you the epic boon at 19th level, since you are not 19th level in a class to get it. You could pick an epic boon at 20th level for your 20th level feat, though.

That said, as others have noted it really isn't much better than a normal feat, so it wouldn't break anything to give it at 19th total character level.

I think ECMO3's distinction between the Epic Boon class features and Epic Boon Feats with their "Level 19+" prerequisite cracked the code, Max Person.

 

[Maxperson]

I think ECMO3's distinction between the Epic Boon class features and Epic Boon Feats with their "Level 19+" prerequisite cracked the code, Max Person.

Yeah. That's my reading as well. You get two if you get to 20th level single class and one if you multiclass to 20th. I didn't see his post while I was responding.

 

[Hatmatter]

Yeah. That's my reading as well. You get two if you get to 20th level single class and one if you multiclass to 20th. I didn't see his post while I was responding.

I know Ad Hoc will likely disagree (he or she is very upfront with his or her dislike of multiclassing), but the more I think about it, the more I really like the notion of the Epic Boon Feats being available to multiclassers, and even two Epic Boon Feats by 20th level for some multiclassers. Even though the Epic Boon Feats are not broken, it provides a kind of capstone for characters who otherwise would not get one. I have not seen commenters mention it, but it is a straight-up improvement from the 2014 rules.

 

[John Lloyd1]

You get two if you get to 20th level single class

I might have missed something, but can you explain the logic for this? The one you receive at 19th level seems obvious, but I don't understand how you get the second epic boon feat using a single class. Are you referring to 'bonus feats at level 20' (p43)?